As regarding Sec.Powell's quote, watching the interview I could 
see he was regretting the terminology he was using, even as he 
said it. He hastily went on to try to clarify things with a 
straight face by saying "we need to shine a light on these areas 
and dry up their sources of income"..etc etc. I don't think he 
was talking about any specific parts of the world, it was just 
that his unfortunate choice of words had just too many obvious 
avenues of humour to venture down. In all seriousness he does 
however come across as a trustworthy and sincere person. As far 
as Mr.Rivera is concerned, I obviously wouldn't wish death on 
him either, but it is rather strange seeing him there. 

At the moment, it's just a case of 'watch this space' as 
regarding Iraq. I recall being approached back in 1984/5 by a 
Iraqi individual who was handing out leaflets and trying to 
bring the to the attention of passers by the human rights abuses 
in Iraq, even then. I think it's about time Saddam Hussein's 
regime was brought to a swift end, for a whole number of reasons 
not least of which are his alleged links to Al-Qaeda and is 
quest for weapons of mass destruction.

As far as the U.K. is concerned, in point of fact, there's no 
discernable unease here, any plots against the U.K. have not 
made front page news. Behind the scenes the intelligence 
services I'm sure are working flat out to uncover numerous 
individuals with links to Al-Qaeda. It's a concern that they 
seem to be more prevalent in the U.K., apart form the U.S., than 
any other country. 
 
I'll beat a hasty retreat on Too Serious, I quite obviously have 
not being paying enough attention!, that post made me laugh 
anyway.

 

Officials told NEWSWEEK the reports were startling. Walker 
acknowledged a lot more than fighting for the Taliban: according 
to administration sources, he also admitted to being a member of 
Al Qaeda and training at its camps, where he participated in 
terrorist exercises-including learning to use explosives and 
poisons-and met with visiting Qaeda officials, including Osama 
bin Laden. Walker also admitted having been instructed in how to 
act in airports so as not to attract police attention.  He was 
no innocent bystander,  said one official.  This wasn t like 
learning to be a soldier in Patton s Army. He was training to 
commit terrorist acts.  
===============================================================

Does anyone know how to say leathal injection in Arabic?

I will be seriously pissed off if he does not get life in prison 
without parole or the death penalty.  Like Walter said he will 
probably get his fifteen minutes of fame in the media.  They 
just need to shoot him and leave him in Afghanistan.

If you dont like our GOD then pack your bags get out of USAwe 
dont want you here anyway its a goverment thing why your here 
they feel sorry for you or something go home make your contry as 
great as ours then you wont need to bum from us or live tax free 
on us will we suffer the concequeces of your action it aint far 
and trully if it was up to me you all would have to leave this 
country.so saying it nicely GET THE FUCK OUT WE DONT WANT YOU 
HERE DONT NEED YOU (PS AMARICA THE WHITE MAN NEEDS TO WAKE THE 
FUCK UP BEFORE WE LOOSE IT ALL.


               NO MORE FORIENERS PLEASE KEEP THEM OUT
               TO MANY HERE NOW     GO HOME LEAVE US
               ALONE BUILD YOUR OWN COUNTRY BEFORE WE  
               REALLY GET PISSED 

We hope all you americns know we support all that is now 
happening in our world, bin laden suck eggs you div, your gonna 
die soon so come out and lets get it over with you no good 
coward, you killed thousands of inocent people now come out and 
face the music,,
god bless America, god bless the UK and all decent people in our 
world

You are ignorant.

Osama was last seen running down a path to Pakistan, wearing a 
Burka to hide his identity, with his Koran shouting; Curse you 
George Bush! Doomed to life in a burka Osama is now being 
considered for membership in a Hiram but until he shaves off his 
beard he will be only good for goat and sheep with occasional 
camel duty.

bradar azizam yahya jan salam taqdem ast omed darem darai sehat 
bashed ma hama ba fazel khdavand sar hal hastem va arzodarem eid 
khoshi ra separi kned ba omed dedar.G.haidar

See how easily I get frustrated.  I can't take it when people 
make fun of me.  When I am in school people make fun of me and I 
just get really upset about it and go and cry in the bathroom.  
I am really just a little pussy who can't handle the truth or 
someone else's opinion.  I try to act tough and smart online to 
make myself feel better.  I think that I am the only person in 
the world and only my opinion matters.  Maybe instead of 
insulting people right off the bat, I should try and carry on a 
rational conversation first before running my big mouth.  I 
think that is why I have no friends (well except for Zac, my 
imaginary friend).  I hope all of you are happy.  You made me 
cry.  Just go away!  I never want to talk to any of you ever 
again!!!

I swear the fucker is NOT in Afghanistan, does anyone truly 
think that this fuccker planned out the murder of our innocent 
people for years without planning HIS OWN SURVIVAL?  I still 
feel what I said before that he must have a DOUBLE or some other 
of his suicide FLUNKIE pretending it is him in Afghanistan.  The 
fucker is NOWHERE to be found and this proves my point.  I have 
a terrible feeling we may not find the fucker for years.  The 
Muslim community is GUILTY by their silence.  KICK ALL MUSLIMS 
OUT OF USA.  FUCK ALL YOU ISLAM COCKSUCKERS!  

Hi Ashraf, I have recently seen and heard a lot of information 
that makes me a lot more sympathetic of the Palestinians. I 
totally don't know why Ariel Sharon is in the lead of Israel 
and why they are sending the Army to do a job that special 
forces should be doing. All of the terrorist attacks on Israel 
have bothered me a lot, but the response to blow stuff up 
with no defined goal is equally upsetting. Right now, the fact 
that Arafat wants to talk while Sharon just wants to blow stuff 
up says something to me... Maybe Arafat is or was a 
terrorist, but I surely think that Sharon is also one. Perhaps 
the fact that the Israelis elected a war criminal made the 
terrorist groups target civilians? Still I think hurting innocent 
civilians is wrong. 

To all on this board...do we really know enough about Israel 
to defend them without question? 

Ashraf, I don't know if you still drop in to read the posts, but I 
just wanted to say hello again and wish the best to you and 
yours. Remember, not all Jews are bad people - just those 
with closed minds and loaded weapons. From what I have 
seen and heard, I would rather visit a Palestinian home than 
the home of an Israeli. Hezbollah and Hamas types should 
read about Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi. They could 
accomplish so much more by protesting peacefully rather 
than throwing rocks. If any protestors were killed by 
opposing military forces, history will give creedence to their 
cause and remove justification from the killers. 

God help the middle east!

And just to show how much they care about Christians and the 
American people,Israel has made special trips into Bethlehem and 
fired a number of rockets into that area.In the meantime,the are 
asking for 17 billion from the U.S.,and the sad part is that they 
do not ask for money or food.They Want WEAPONS.

A Darkness...........

It has come clear and a very bad thing I fear. 
For the fate of the Jews is the cloud I see near. 
For Jacobs pillow a fight to the death.
The Jews and Palestinians to their last breath.
God's judgment weighs over this land.
The future of mankind lies in the sand.
Turn from the want and desire to hate.
Your own life is in the balance of their fate.
This Christmas is for the message of Christ.
Not that painful day of his death, but in the meaning of his 
life.

. Merlyn /|\

How can we be secure and free?

Every time we turn around, the government is talking 
about "security," but all we see is economic and social 
insecurity. We can't find a job -- or if we can, we have to work 
three to keep our heads above water. Millions of us don't have 
health care. The schools are falling apart. Hunger and 
homelessness are on the rise. When our children look for a 
future, they don't see one. And the more we get on to the 
Internet, the more we watch CNN, the more we read about a world 
we perhaps never knew existed, the more we see that millions of 
people all over the world are in the same boat we are (and 
millions more are worse off than that).

The government claims that the new laws such as the USA PATRIOT 
Act, the use of military tribunals, and rewritten federal 
policies will protect the American people from terrorism, and, 
by implication, America will be safe and secure again.

Is this true?

For the ruling class, yes, of course it's true. The ruling class 
is not threatened by those they claim that they are pursuing in 
order to protect "the American people." As if the ruling class 
cared about the American people! The real threat to the ruling 
class is the growing millions of impoverished throughout the 
world and at home. Worsening poverty, political repression and 
powerlessness, and the destruction of all they hold dear is 
propelling these millions into action in defense of their lives.

The "war against terrorism" is a wedge with which to pry open 
the door to a world in which it is no longer possible to 
question our rulers, to disseminate a vision which does not 
affirm their view of the world, or to organize ourselves in our 
own interests. Our rulers are constructing an "alternate system 
of justice," as one journalist called it, the next step in 
controlling the inevitable upsurges that are bound to rise and 
spread as conditions deteriorate.

Military strategy says the optimum position is to pick the field 
of battle and to go for the enemy's weak point. The ruling class 
understands this well. This is the reason why they have shifted 
every minute of news to terrorism, why they have kept the 
American people in a state of simmering anxiety. All these moves 
are aimed at diverting attention from the very real dangers we 
face in these new laws, as well as to silence complaints about 
our deteriorating quality of life.

Their weak spot -- and our battleground -- is the growing 
inability of this ruling class to guarantee the wherewithal for 
the people to secure even the basic necessities of food, 
clothing, and shelter. It is a ruling class that has betrayed 
every tenet the American people hold dear -- the rights to life, 
liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The only thing that can bring safety and security to our 
families is to guarantee that every family in this country and 
the rest of the world shares equally in what the world has to 
offer, that all who have been torn down by poverty are raised 
up, and all those who have been marginalized are made whole. 
This is the only path to a world free from violence, brutality 
and terror.

Humanity stands on the threshold of achieving all that it holds 
dear. The handful of violent, decadent brutes that make up the 
world's ruling class is the only thing that stands in our way. 
We must speak out against the true nature of these new, terrible 
laws. But we must strengthen our efforts by shifting the 
battleground to the fight for a world which is organized 
cooperatively, a world in which no one goes without.

Tonight I want to talk about unity. I also want to talk about 
class conflict and how ideas both reflect and influence that 
conflict. And I want to talk about the war against new ideas.

Everyone is talking about unity today. It is a central theme in 
our culture. I want to share with you a few relevant quotes 
about unity. First the words of conservative columnist Linda 
Chavez, who referring to the tragedy of September 11th wrote:

"The attacks remind us we re all in the same boat. What unites 
us as Americans is more important than any of the petty 
divisions of race or ethnic group, of class or profession, of 
religious or political affiliation. We are not black or white, 
Asian or Latino, Christian or Jew. We are Americans We ve been 
indoctrinated with the cult of multiculturalism ." "we must 
recommit ourselves to assimilating the millions of new comers."

Sounds like the Borg. "You will be assimilated. Resistance is 
futile."

Then there is Bill Moyers. Who to his credit, has for several 
years been raising the alarum that something is wrong with the 
soul of democracy in America. In his words:

"The soul of democracy--the essence of the word itself--is 
government of, by and for the people. And the soul of democracy 
has been dying, drowning in a rising tide of big money 
contributed by a narrow, unrepresentative elite that has 
betrayed the faith of citizens in self-government.

But what's happened since the September 11 attacks would seem to 
put the lie to my fears. Americans have rallied together in a 
way that I cannot remember since World War II. This catastrophe 
has reminded us of a basic truth at the heart of our democracy: 
No matter our wealth or status or faith, we are all equal before 
the law, in the voting booth and when death rains down from the 
sky."

I would question whether we are all equal before the law, or in 
the voting booth for that matter, but more importantly after 
that statement Moyers reminds us:

"The ideologues at Heritage earlier this year teamed up with 
deep-pocket bankers--many from Texas, with ties to the Bush 
White House--to stop America from cracking down on terrorist 
money havens. How about that for patriotism? .And these people 
wrap themselves in the flag and sing "The Star-Spangled Banner" 
with gusto."

But to me, the most enlightening statement about our new-found 
unity comes from a US Postal worker. She said: 

Rain, snow, sleet, or hail, they didn t say nothin  bout no 
Anthrax.
CNN did not name her, but in my opinion in those simple words 
she profoundly captured the state of America today. She also 
showed that part of her soul where the poet resides.

The death of postal workers is not a laughing matter, but the 
denial by the Federal Government of the unequal manner in which 
the institutions of power in Washington were treated whether 
there were signs of Antrax or not, compared to the way the 
Postal workers were ill-treated, is definitely laughable. 

The Postal workers have shown at minimum a degree of social 
consciousness in this very confrontational, not united, 
discourse over their well being. However, even the class nature 
of the government s policy is also revealed.

Are we united? 

Last year the average poor person's income dropped so far below 
the official poverty line, that it set an all-time record. 
Almost half a million more people filed for unemployment 
benefits in the first eight months of this year than in the same 
period last year. More than 440,000 jobs have been lost since 
Sept. 11. All of this following a record expansion. Seldom is 
the question asked: Expansion for whom?

Only 3.6% of national income went to the poorest one-fifth of 
households in 2000, tying 1967 for the lowest level on record. 
The share received by the middle three-fifths set a new low of 
47% while the share received by the top one-fifth set a new high 
of 50%. And according to the New York Times, the congressional 
tax-cut package would give $70 billion -- out of $100 billion -- 
in relief to businesses. The richest 1% of individual taxpayers 
would get 41% of the 2002 tax cuts in the House bill, about 
$27,000 each, according to Citizens for Tax Justice. The 60% 
with the lowest incomes would get 7 percent of the tax cuts, 
about $78 each. 

If that is unity, then give me the most chaotic disunity 
available. 

We are united in our horror at the atrocities of September 11th. 
And we are united in our concern for our future. But beyond 
that, what else are we united on?

There is more than one war going on right now. There is the war 
in Afghanistan. And there is a class war in America. Ultimately 
both are class wars. Accompanying these wars is a propaganda 
war. It is a statement on our times that CNN is actually using 
the term "propaganda war" independent of anti-communism   but 
only in the context of the battle of ideas between the Taliban 
and the Pentagon. There is, however, also a battle for the 
hearts and minds of workers around the world. Sometimes the 
language of this war is subtle and at other times it is wielded 
like a hammer. How can you have ideological unity when the 
reality is one of economic disunity? Of economic inequality? Of 
economic injustice? This propaganda war is more evident than I 
have seen it during my lifetime. It is pervasive and touches our 
every day lives. On the other hand, it is far more abstract and 
relatively removed than we are used to in this country. Issues 
that were not widely discussed before are now fair game.

Here are a few noteworthy examples of how the level of public 
discourse, and the range of ideas and idealogy, has expanded: 
First of all the scholarly book Taliban, written by Ahmed Rashid 
is on the New York Times bestseller list and is being sold at 
Costco. And while it probably would have sold only a couple of 
thousand copies prior to September 11, it has now sold more than 
half-a-million. Americans are discussing what is happening in 
the world. As much as the network news sucks, more people are 
tuning in to it. Maybe some of them will tire of the towing of 
the official line and the narrowness of the coverage and 
analysis, and start searching for alternative sources. I think 
this is good.


When former heavyweight boxing champion Muhammad Ali, who is a 
Muslim, visited the ruins of the World Trade Center, a reporter 
asked how he felt about the suspects sharing his Islamic faith, 
Ali responded, "How do you feel about Hitler sharing yours?" 
Ouch! Muhammad Ali asked that question!


The Pentagon is hiring Hollywood to help it imagine terrorist 
scenarios. A commentator on CNN explained " If you are going to 
change the future you have to first imagine it." 
"If you are going to change the future you have to first imagine 
it." We all know that is true. But I could swear this is 
something I have heard Nelson Peery say at some point. So it 
seems that CNN commentators are now quoting revolutionaries. 

Of course it all comes down to what kind of future you envision. 
Earlier I said we are united in our concern for our future. That 
is true. But don t assume there is unity about what that future 
should look like. Your view of the future is rooted in your view 
of the present.

Did you hear what Ann Coulter, formerly of the National Review 
said after the attack:

"This is no time to be precious about locating the exact 
individuals directly involved in this particular terrorist 
attack. Those responsible include anyone anywhere in the world 
who smiled in response to the annihilation of patriots We should 
invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to 
Christianity." 

Do you think she wants the same future as you? 

There is a battle for the future. That is why Colin Powell 
distinguishes between the "civilized" and "uncivilized" world. 
That is why President Bush who claims to be against all 
terrorism, still has found it necessary to specifically condemn 
radical terrorism. If you are against all terrorism why qualify 
the word? Because this is not just a war against terror. It is 
part of a class war. This is a war just as much about meaning, 
as it is about property, oil, power, and retribution. What does 
terrorist mean? When it fit the interests of US Foreign Policy 
to underwrite terrorism in Afghanistan to oust the Soviets -- 
terror was acceptable. Not evil. Zbigniew Brezinski, the 
National Security Advisor under Carter, has recently said that 
ousting communism was worth arming "future" terrorists. Which is 
exactly what happened.

When State Department Counter-Terrorism Coordinator Michael 
Sheehan was asked to define terrorism he said;

In a war, if military forces are attacking each other, it's not 
terrorism. But if an armed terrorist organization attacks 
civilian targets, that's terrorism. Or its... a terrorist attack 
if you attack military people in barracks, such as Khobar 
bombings on the Marine barracks in 1982. Those are terrorist 
acts. Each case is taken on a case-by-case basis.


REPORTER: So, for example, if the United States were to drop-
what do you call them? cruise missiles on the people who where 
in barracks or in tents, as it may be, would that be terrorism? 
Could that be terrorism?


SHEEHAN: No. 
That exchange took place last year. There was actually laughter 
in the room at this response. That laughter was not included in 
the transcript of the briefing released by the State Department, 
but it could still be heard when the segment was played on C-
Span radio. Again, not a laughing matter, but laughable.

George Bush qualifies the type of terrorism he is against, 
because in the historical sense if it were not for terrorism, 
America would not be the power it is today. America might not 
even exist where it not for terrorism. Consider the irony that 
the US government is now preparing to combat potential small pox 
weaponry, when biological warfare in the form of small pox was 
waged against the Indians. As a result warriors in New England 
were reduced from 30,000 to 300 years before even the arrival at 
Plymouth Rock. The point is where there are class interests at 
stake there is an ideological battle. George Bush would never 
refer to the use of small pox against the Indians, a kind of 
ethnic cleansing, as terrorism. In fact I dare you to find 
reference to that part of our history in most history books. 

We are in a war over ideas and that is why on the one hand we 
are in an exciting period of new ideas being openly discussed 
and disseminated, while at the same time, we are experiencing a 
new wave of censorship and repression.

The type of terrorism is being qualified, because swiftly and 
silently terrorism has been redefined for domestic use. Thus we 
come to the USA Patriot Act, which stands for the Uniting and 
Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to 
Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act. If you are not familiar 
with the new powers given the Attorney General, the FBI, and CIA 
in this Act, I urge you to read it soon. Following are some 
interpretations of major components of the Act. 

It permits the Attorney General to incarcerate or detain non-
citizens based on mere suspicion, and to deny re-admission to 
the U.S. of non-citizens (including lawful permanent residents) 
for engaging in speech protected by the First Amendment.


It expands the ability of the government to conduct secret 
searches, again in anti-terrorism investigations AND in routine 
criminal investigations unrelated to terrorism. This means that 
law enforcement authorities can enter and search an individual s 
home without presenting a warrant or in any way informing the 
subject of the search.


It gives the Attorney General and the Secretary of State the 
power to designate domestic groups as terrorist organizations 
and to block any non-citizen who belongs to them from entering 
the country.


It grants the FBI broad access to sensitive medical, financial, 
mental health, and educational records about individuals without 
having to show evidence of a crime and without a court order.


It puts the CIA and other intelligence agencies back in the 
business of spying on Americans by giving the Director of 
Central Intelligence the authority to identify priority targets 
for intelligence surveillance in the United States.


It allows searches of highly personal financial records without 
notice and without judicial review based on a very low standard 
that does not require probable cause of a crime or even 
relevancy to an ongoing terrorism investigation.


It allows student records to be searched based on a very low 
standard of relevancy to an investigation.


It creates a broad new definition of "domestic terrorism" that 
could target people who engage in acts of political protest and 
subject them to wiretapping and enhanced penalties. 
So where do you fit in the context of the USA Patriot Act? Are 
you a terrorist? What does all this mean to those who are 
battling for the poor. What might it mean to the President of 
the Postal Workers Union? One writer, using Martin Luther King 
as a political barometer, has written that King would have been 
subject to investigation under these rules. Although we already 
know he was wired taped. We can learn something about how 
dangerous a new idea can be from the way that the final years of 
King s life are addressed or not addressed by our cultural and 
media institutions, since it was during that period that King 
was waging a Poor Peoples Campaign.

First he was ostracized. He basically was condemned for his new 
ideas. Why? Well he began to look beyond color to class. In his 
Beyond Vietnam speech in 1967 he called America the "greatest 
purveyor of violence in the world today" and referred to 
the "capitalists of the West investing in Asia, Africa and South 
America, only to take huge profits out with no concern for the 
social betterment of the countries." But perhaps most damaging 
from the perspective of those members of the ruling class who 
had previously praised him, King starting talking about 
restructuring society. Literally saying that an "edifice that 
produces beggars needs restructuring." When he began to form 
what he called a "multiracial army of the poor" to descend upon 
Washington the Reader s Digest warned of an insurrection.

So first he was made into a pariah. Which effectively set the 
cultural, ideological, and propaganda environment in which he 
was assassinated.. That was the reaction to his ideas changing. 
The USA Patriot Act is not only about planes being flown into 
buildings. It is not about unity but polarity. It is about class 
conflict. It is about the threat of changing ideas. And on many 
levels ideas are changing in America.

One young person working on Wall St. when asked about his life 
post September 11th, said "My life was ruled by the stock 
market. I measured success by what college I would attend, and 
my starting salary. Now how do I feel? A fireman asked what I 
did and I did not want to say my job. Tax analyst " Nothing 
wrong with being a tax analyst, but that self-evaluation 
represents an opening for a shift in consciousness. And this 
applies across society. Such a shift, a reprioritization, is 
drastically needed in our society.

Consider this. 

According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture 
Organization (FAO) nearly 36,000 children died from conditions 
of starvation on September 11th. There were no television 
programs about these children. No newspaper articles. No message 
from the president. No acts of solidarity. No message from the 
Pope. No Alert Level. And no military mobilization.

Where Americans spend their money is an indicator of what they 
think is important. The day before September 11th the Red Cross 
received $1,000 in donations . Within two weeks after Sept 11, 
it had raised $202 million. Within a month that had doubled. By 
November all donations associated with September 11 had reached 
at least 2 billion. According to the US Department of Health and 
Human Services more than 600,000 people go to bed homeless each 
night. I praise all the artists who have come forward and 
donated their talent to the victims of the attack on the World 
Trade Center Towers. Over $150 million was raised in one night. 
The social ills, the problems of the poor and destitute, are not 
irresolvable. We have the money, the vision, the know how, the 
technology, all of the resources necessary to resolve these 
problems. Clearly what is lacking is a government willing to 
mobilize those resources on behalf of the poor. And there is a 
profound lack of general will. In fact when people found out 
that not all of the nearly $500 million they donated to the Red 
Cross would be going to the victims of September 11, but would 
be distributed across the areas of concern addressed by the Red 
Cross, many wanted their money back. 

We are in more than one war. I have not quoted Martin Luther 
King much in my life. But we all have quoted "I have a dream." I 
think that quote should always be followed by King s other 
forgotten, under reported, not as catchy quote: "an edifice that 
produces beggars needs restructuring." We might need an artist 
to restructure that quote. But the meaning is profound.

I know I have not talked much specifically about art. But art 
take places within a culture. And if we are in a culture where 
it takes the tragic death of 6000 innocent Americans for our 
hearts to be moved -- then we are doomed. Our art must move 
American citizens to be as outraged by the slow, invisible, 
unreported, death of 36,000 children in one day, as they are by 
what one kindergarten child described to her teacher as 
the "birds are on fire" as she watched people jumping from the 
World Trade Center Towers. 

I listened to Charles Osgood on CBS talk about getting back to 
normal. He said "We want to go back to the world we remember." 
That will not happen. That world is gone. But even if we could I 
don t want to go back to that world. We have to envision a world 
better than the one that created the conditions that make such 
terror imaginable. 


Select Sources:


"Which America Will We Be Now?" Bill Moyers, The Nation, 
November, 19, 2001

"Martin Luther King: A Domestic Terrorist?" Ira Chernus, Common 
Dreams News Center, October 30, 2001

"Terror Law: A Win for Fear, a Loss for Freedom" The Nation, 
October 26, 2001

"Attack on the Bill of Rights" Marty Jezer, Common Dreams News 
Center, October 19, 2001 

"As Economy Tumbles, The Poor Will Suffer Most," Betsy Leondar-
Wright, San Jose Mercury News, October 19, 2001

"Americans Dig Deep to Aid Victims, Maureen O Donnell, Art 
Golab, Chicago Sun-Times, September 26, 2001

"This Is War" Ann Coulter, National Review, September 13, 2001

State Department Counter-Terrorism Coordinator Michael Sheehan, 
briefing on the 1999 Annual "Patterns of Global Terrorism" 
Report, May, 1 2000

Le Nouvel Observateur (France), Interview of Zbigniew 
Brzezinski, January 15-21, 1998

U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 
http://www.aspe.hhs.gov/progsys/homeless/

"New class, New Consciousness," LRNA

"You Are Being Lied To   The Disinformation Guide to Media 
Distortion, Historical Whitewashes and Cultural Myths, Russ 
Kick, Editor, disinformation

A-Infos News Service

"We Are Americans" Linda Chavez, http://www.jewishworldreview.com

CNN

Politicizing the League

The overall purpose of the League is to ensure the development 
of the consciousness of the American people. To do this, we have 
to shape the League to the needs of the new epoch of history -- 
where the technological basis for organizing society on the 
basis of the distribution according to need is increasingly 
possible, where social revolution is throwing all of society 
into motion, and the emergence of a movement that is objectively 
and practically for communism.

We know that our first task is to build the League as a 
political organization capable of pulling together the 
revolutionaries and winning them to communism, not as an idea 
but as a practical resolution to the problems faced by society. 
We know that the League must become capable of influencing the 
political thinking of whomever and whatever section of America 
we are targeting -- the whole of society, the different elements 
of the dispossessed, etc. -- so they in turn will politically 
influence the political process along the line of march of the 
revolution.

The key question today is how do we build and stabilize the 
League on the broad basis that the new epoch demands while at 
the same time striving to strengthen the organization 
politically and theoretically. This report pulls together our 
discussions since the last Convention and makes use of some 
organizational writings to begin the discussion. Answering this 
and all the myriad questions clustered around it will take the 
contribution of the entire organization.


Being political

We often talk about "being political". Being political is having 
an outlook based in an understanding that politics is about 
power -- which class has it and what they do, have done and will 
do to hold on to it; what class is trying to get it and how it's 
going get it -- and aligning our individual, organizational and 
political conduct toward that reality.

We are not striving to "be political" in the abstract, but along 
a particular line of march. In the case of the Labor Party 
work, "being political" involves playing a role in building a 
class party in order to effect the political environment and to 
develop the combatants subjectively along the line of class 
perspective and class politics. In the case of propaganda "being 
political" means the production and broad dissemination of 
communist propaganda around the questions of the day with the 
aim of facilitating, on the one hand, the development of class 
identity and, on the other, planting the seeds of a vision of a 
society that could realistically replace the one we suffer under 
today.

Within both sides of this dialectic, however, it is impossible 
to be political along the lines we have identified unless we set 
up and maintain the means by which we are analyzing the various 
forces in motion and their effects on the class struggle from 
both an objective and subjective point of view. This includes 
drawing conclusions not only for the tasks of revolutionaries in 
the mass movement, but also for questions of organization and 
propaganda. We do this in order to determine specifically how to 
effect the environment in a broad way and along the lines we 
have laid out in our documents. It also allows us to continually 
assess and reassess that environment in order to make plans for 
the future.


Politicizing the League

Being political and politicizing the league are interconnected, 
but they are not the same. Politicizing the League means 
orienting the League toward the outlook of being political and 
on that basis, rallying the organization around an 
organizational vision and a sense of purpose.

We talk so much about vision it is easy to get confused here. 
For purposes of this paper, we are not discussing the vision of 
a cooperative society. We are instead discussing the vision of 
the League as an organization. These two "visions" are 
inescapably linked, but they are not the same. One describes a 
new society. The other describes what the organization needs to 
be and what it needs to do in order to play its role in bringing 
that new society about.

It is interesting to note that business leaders are grappling 
with similar problems, if not for the same reasons, as the 
League. They are seeking to organizationally decentralize to 
take advantage of the new technology while at the same time 
maintaining the necessary influence over the workforce so that 
it accomplishes the goals of the corporation or business. 
Various studies done by the military and books such as The Fifth 
Discipline agree that this necessary organizational 
decentralization will turn to organizational chaos without the 
cohesion of a common intellectual outlook and approach among 
those who make up the organization.

The descriptions of an organizational vision found in The Fifth 
Discipline are useful for us to consider:

"A vision is a 'articulation of a realistic, credible, 
attractive future for an organization. It is a mental model of a 
desirable or idealistic future for the organization that is 
better, more successful, and more desirable than the 
present. ... a vision transcends the day to day. It inspires 
people to commit voluntarily and completely to something that is 
truly worthwhile."

...A vision provides a purpose and inspires an organization to 
be much greater than the sum of its parts, it has the potential 
to generate unity of purpose and spirit."

Through a vision and a sense of purpose an organization can 
build the necessary moral and esprit des corps that allows 
individuals to commit their all to the organization and what it 
is trying to accomplish.

Vision, a sense of purpose, morale, esprit de corps are 
abstractions. They can only be instilled, internalized and 
expressed through concrete actions. This is most effectively 
achieved through plans/campaigns that have clear and specific 
goals, objectives and tasks. It is crucial that every individual 
in the organization understands his or her particular role in 
what the organization is trying to accomplish, that they believe 
in its validity and that they have a perception that it is 
attainable.

By carrying out these concrete actions along a certain line 
individuals gain confidence in the work of the organization, its 
purpose and their own place within it. It is on the basis of the 
interaction between concrete plans that are realistic and 
clearly articulated, on the one hand, and the actual 
implementation, evaluation and results of those plans, on the 
other, that an understanding of organizational vision, a sense 
of purpose, and esprit de corps can develop.

If we apply these insights coupled with our own organizational 
principles we can see that the League can most 
effectively 'politicize' within the context of overall concrete 
and coordinated plans that have the following elements:

Plans that are based on thorough and ongoing political 
assessments 
Plans that are constructed with the knowledge of the strengths 
and weaknesses of the different aspects of the organization 
(nationally and within areas) 
Plans that have clearly articulated goals, objectives and tasks 
that identify how each and every committee, area and member will 
be mobilize toward realistic and achievable goals. 
Plans that are evaluated and reported upon as the building 
blocks for future work. 
Plans that take the organization toward a clearly articulated 
vision of a "future destination". 
The elements below (there are undoubtedly otherscan assist in 
politicizing the membership and need to be integrated into an 
overall plan:

Political discussions that broaden the comrades' outlook of the 
world, allow them to analyze the environment in which they do 
their work and to draw political conclusions for the work of the 
organization. (This is related to but distinct from an 
educational program of schools, classes, study and discussion. 
Both are needed). 
Regular evaluation of plans, which focuses on aligning the work 
with our overall understanding (not simply who did what). 
Having open dialogue with others through the various mediums 
that exist both within and outside the League. 
"Politicizing the League" is not simply a matter of a campaign 
to agitate and inspire the membership around an abstraction, or 
establishing another education program (although these may be 
components of the whole), or is it an end in itself. Nor is it 
the work of one committee checking to make sure people 
are 'being political'. It must be embedded in the outlook and 
approach of the whole organization -- guided by a common plan 
and specific mission. All collectives should be involved 
in "politicizing the League" in the sense of conforming activity 
along agreed upon lines, with the express purpose of achieving 
the goals we have outlined.

The propaganda campaign and the short campaign around the energy 
crisis helped us accumulate some experience in this approach. In 
the case of the energy crisis, for example, individuals quickly 
informed themselves of the particulars, wrote materials, went on 
the radio, organized meetings etc. to raise the question of 
private property and a vision of a cooperative society. 
Evaluations of the campaigns have pointed to the need to use 
this approach more fully as model for future work.


Resources:

Peter Senge, The Fifth Discipline, Doubleday, 1994

Col. P.J. McCabe, "A Few Good Visions: Time for Wartime 
Leadership" (War, Peace and Security WWW Server Advanced 
Military Studies Course) 
http://www.cfcsc.dnd.ca/irc/amsc/amsc1/026.html

Editorial: Police state is aimed at the poor 



America is in the grip of panic, fear and confusion. Such 
terrible times become the muddy waters in which treacherous 
political groups go fishing. Politics in America isn't so much 
the creation of situations as it is taking advantage of them. 
The panic and confusion of our time is a temporary window of 
opportunity for these groups to carry out an agenda that would 
be unacceptable in "normal" times. The agenda of the ruling 
class is simply how, in a changing world, to protect the 
interests of the 1 percent of the population that have an 
economic and political strangle hold on America. Their agenda 
never changes, but their tactics do. 

To understand what tactics they are utilizing, we must have some 
grasp of the basic situation they face. 

Before the tragedy of September 11, the country was already in a 
recession that threatens to become a depression. The economic 
forces represented by President Bush were demanding cuts in the 
social services in order to maintain the ready money (liquidity) 
to keep Wall Street going. Their political representatives, 
looking toward the next election, hesitated to openly attack 
what is left of the social safety net. They correctly feared not 
only a backlash at the polls, but widespread street 
demonstrations. They wanted to wait until the downturn slowed. 
They know there will be a slight economic recovery. People have 
to have food, shelter and clothing. They also know that such a 
slight recovery will not result in hiring back the millions of 
laid-off workers. It is more economical, and therefore 
necessary, to continue the shift to labor-replacing machinery. 
Therefore, the partial recovery will lay the basis for an even 
more severe downturn in the economy. The basic economic rule is 
that if the masses do not earn an expendable income, they cannot 
buy. If they cannot buy, the ruling class cannot get a profit. A 
partial economic recovery is not occurring, but the terrible 
national emergency provides them the same opportunity. 

The ruling class knows they can command the loyalty of the mass 
only so long as the elementary economic needs of the mass are 
attended to. If this is not done, then this mass will surely 
turn toward revolution. The time to stop it is before it 
happens. From this point of view, the national tragedy is an 
opportunity that the ruling class is moving rapidly to take 
advantage of. 

We do not underestimate the danger that this country faces. The 
slaughter of some 5,000 people, mainly workers, in New York is 
clear enough. The depth of the tragedy does not stop this group 
of fascists that controls the government from moving to take 
advantage of the situation. Their first point is to maintain the 
confusion and fear as intensely and as long as possible so they 
can pass laws against "terrorists" that actually are aimed at 
the growing and restless mass of poor. 

The worst case in point is the fascistic Senate Bill 1510, which 
Congress was preparing to pass as we go to press. This bill 
provides for the seizure of assets of any individual or 
organization that the government decides is somehow abetting 
money laundering or terrorist groups. No proof need be submitted 
so long as the government states that disclosing proof would 
jeopardize ongoing investigations. 

One of the most dangerous parts of this bill is 
the "retroactive" clause. This clause makes activities that were 
legal before the passage of the bill retroactively illegal. That 
means that if you participated in a legal rally to lift the 
embargo against Cuba, you could be retroactively charged with 
aiding a terrorist state. If you have protested the planned, 
methodical starvation of the Iraqi people you could be charged 
with abetting a terrorist state. The list is endless. Among the 
bill's most troubling provisions are measures that would give 
the government the authority to spy on its own people, give the 
attorney general unlimited authority to incarcerate non-
citizens, and allow the government to expand its use of secret 
searches. 

Following is an excerpt from a recent FBI memo concerning 
domestic terrorists in the United States: 

"Left-wing and Puerto Rican extremist groups -- The second 
category of domestic terrorists, left-wing groups, generally 
profess a revolutionary socialist doctrine and view themselves 
as protectors of the people against the 'dehumanizing effects' 
of capitalism and imperialism. They aim to bring about change in 
the United States through revolution rather than through the 
established political process. A few organized groups, such as 
the American Indian Movement (AIM), All-African Peoples 
Revolutionary Party (A-APRP) and Republic of New Afrika (RNA), 
although fractured, still exist. Terrorist groups seeking to 
secure full Puerto Rican independence from the United States 
through violent means represent one of the remaining active 
vestiges of left-wing terrorism." 

We must not be fooled by the super-patriotic rush to lash out 
against anything "linked to terrorism." We know that the only 
weapon the poor have is organization. The ruling class is moving 
to deny this weapon to us. Fascism always begins the assault 
against democracy with an attack against the democratic rights 
of those who people are most reluctant to defend. 

The German Nazi Party established a "guilt by association" law 
in order to consolidate their dictatorship. This idea was taken 
up by Senator Joe McCarthy's gang in their near-successful 
attack upon American democracy during the late 1940s through 
early 1950s. Crimes are committed by individuals, not by 
organizations, or national or religious groups. This is the 
cornerstone of our civil rights and it must be defended. 

LRNA will carry out its responsibilities in exposing this crude 
maneuver for what it is. 

Don't be fooled by war's goals 



As the year 2001 comes to a seemingly chaotic ending, it's 
important to summarize America from the point of view of what 
the American worker has faced/is facing before and after 
September 11 and how to address those issues in a conscious 
manner. 

First of all, let's be real. "A surge of layoffs" of Americans, 
according to the Wall Street Journal, was taking place long 
before the tragedies of September 11. Yes, they have intensified 
since, and the government has been cutting out (unbelievable as 
it sounds) any discussions about benefit support to the 
unemployed, especially around health insurance. As we've 
reported in past issues, more than 40 million Americans have no 
health insurance. This is just one of the many areas where it is 
the poor who bear the burden of the policies of the ruling 
class. 

The world the American worker is waking up to is an impoverished 
world. Currently, the American worker is being whooped up into 
hysteria around terrorism; he is being swayed in the direction 
of waging war against a deeply impoverished region of the world. 
We are not fooled. Oil and global domination for the ruling 
class were the goals of the Gulf War -- a war led by President 
Bush's father and then-General Colin Powell -- and these goals 
remain the same today. And it will be the poor in the United 
States who will pay the ultimate price. 

Conscious people are beginning to challenge the ruling class on 
its real intentions. Revolutionaries must win the war for the 
hearts and minds of the American people. This ruling class is 
telling the American worker how he must part with what liberties 
he has in order to move towards all -out war to "punish the 
terrorists." This tactic is aimed at disarming and dividing all 
poor people. The terrible conditions faced by the poor of the 
world and the new class of poor people in America are being put 
on the back burner. The real challenge today is the creation of 
an organization dedicated to bringing real peace and economic 
security for all. 

We believe that an organization of revolutionaries, capable of 
summarizing the political and economic situation from the point 
of view of the interests of the poor, is necessary. This is why 
the League of Revolutionaries for a New America (LRNA) was 
formed. LRNA, which publishes the People's Tribune/Tribuno del 
Pueblo, is dedicated to educating the people about the true 
nature of this system. This system called capitalism values only 
what it can exploit. Fundamental change in the way society 
produces its wealth is underway, which calls for fundamental 
change in how society is organized to distribute that wealth. A 
society built on cooperation, with the physical, environmental, 
cultural and spiritual well-being of its people put above the 
profits of a handful of billionaires, is what LRNA proposes. 

We have options in the face of fear. It's a long, hard struggle, 
but we see we have no choice other than to organize ourselves. 
We must not allow oil profits and global domination to be put 
before people's lives. The ruling class is committed to the 
maximization of profits even if it means the destruction of 
humanity; we want and are committed to a vision of a world of 
peace and cooperation. This vision is possible. 

This article originated in the People's Tribune (Online 
Edition), Vol. 26 No. 11 / November, 2001; P.O. Box 3524, 
Chicago, IL 60654, http://www.lrna.org. For free electronic 
subscription, email majordomo@gocatgo.com with a message of 
subscribe pt-dist
Feel free to reproduce unless marked as copyrighted; please 
include this message with reproductions of the article.

In memory of Millie Ankrum 



It has long been accepted that the revolutionary movement needs 
role models along with printed or spoken education. As young 
militants step forward, they naturally search for outstanding 
people to emulate. Millie Ankrum's life is such a role model. 
Millie was no ideologue. She deeply understood the need for 
fundamental change and organized her life to achieve it. 

Rare in history are individuals who, before their time, come to 
personify qualities of the new human being destined to be 
created by a new, more humane society. In spirit, in everlasting 
memory, Millie Ankrum is for us today such a special person. 

Born of no property, no wealth, Millie was rich in her capacity 
to love -- and we, in return, loved her so much. The devoted 
mother, the true friend, and -- most importantly-- the 
enlightened revolutionary anticipated in the life she led 
qualities of the new person we all must seek to emulate and 
fight for. 

In a world where the highest accomplishments of human 
intelligence are used to create the cruelest inhumanities, 
Millie's embracing honesty, sincerity, and humanness is our 
immediate and permanent thought of her. Her sweet smile and 
laughter-- but, then, her militant and deep anger at injustice 
and selfishness -- will never be forgotten. 

"I remember something that really struck me about Millie," noted 
a close comrade. "Besides her strength and staunchness as a 
black woman, she was a genuine internationalist. She was deeply 
appreciative of the value of human cultural achievements, no 
matter the color or ethnic flavor. I remember her overwhelming 
joy after having gone to a country music concert. She talked of 
how Dolly Parton's voice powerfully and beautifully filled the 
entire hall." 

In summing up the millions of years of human experience, Jackie 
Robinson once stated that "a life is not important except in the 
impact it has on other lives." Who would deny Millie's impact? 
There is no doubt that those of us who had the honor and 
privilege to walk with her, to talk with her, and to work with 
her have been bettered by her caring and courageous 
comradeship. "Every time I have thought of her, I feel 
strengthened in the revolutionary work that I do. Even now, her 
memory inspires me," said another of her longtime friends. 

Millie was among the best that the League of Revolutionaries for 
a New America has produced. Her roots were deep in the 
impoverished streets of South Central Los Angeles and Watts; she 
worked there and on Chicago's West Side and South Side. The many 
streets of America like those are also the roots of the new 
American revolution which will give rise to a New America free 
of poverty, want, and dehumanization. And this, in turn, will 
give rise to a new human being with all the truly 
internationalist, loving, and sincere qualities of Millie 
Ankrum. It would do our great cause and vision well for all of 
us to be guided each and every day by her forever-living memory 
and model. 

-- The League of Revolutionaries for a New America 


-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

Calm Persuader 



Some gesticulate wildly and swing their arms and raise their 
voices ... 

Millie spoke with a subdued passion ... 

Some are loathe to admit when they don't understand 

Millie struggled for clarity every day of her life. 

Some toot their own horn and trumpet their every act, self-
importantly. 

Millie looked to the task that lay ahead. 

And some complain at the slightest discomfort 

While Millie's muted endurance inspired, inspires. 

She was in the eye of a social hurricane, almost as a 
birthright, 

But she was unruffled by the winds that blew around her, holding 
steady. 

She was loved and followed; a persistent influence, dogged, 
patient, 

A calm persuader. 

But she was also a stick of dynamite with a long fuse that 
crackled, 

burning down with a razor hatred of the foe, and when she 
castigated injustice, 

all froze (but her smile shined so bright, eyes sparkling, a 
rolling laugh, 

so robust, she lifted spirits daily) 

(And, man, could she bake some cakes!) 

Missing you, Millie. Trying to find an explanation in the 
randomness of casualty, 

and not succeeding. 

But celebrating, nonetheless, that you were here, that you 
touched so many, 

that our kids played together, that we danced, that we argued, 

that we strategized and soared high and claimed the world as our 
own ... 

that we were all but children when our paths first crossed 

and we walked down a just road together for a very long time. 

-- poem by Tony Prince 


-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

An open letter to Millie's son 



Dear Carl: 

Michigan Welfare Rights offers our most sincere sympathies at 
this hour of family transition. If ever there was a Drum Major 
for justice, for peace and for equality, it was your mother. Who 
can forget those memorable fights and battles we fought side-by-
side where she demanded that the rights of the poor and 
disenfranchised be preserved and recognized as important by 
those who felt otherwise. This general, this champion of the 
oppressed has paid plenty of insurance into the "Book of Life" 
that has secured for her a place in our hearts forever, whether 
she be here or not. It is our own selfishness when our comrades 
are suffering that makes us pray that they linger with us, but 
champions know when they need to leave and lay down this fight. 
Rest, most dearest sister Mildred, thoroughbred and hero of ours 
and know that we will carry your heart on with us one more step, 
one more day, one more victory ... 

Maureen D. Taylor, Chairperson of the Michigan Welfare Rights 
Organization 


-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

This article originated in the People's Tribune (Online 
Edition), Vol. 26 No. 11 / November, 2001; P.O. Box 3524, 
Chicago, IL 60654, http://www.lrna.org. For free electronic 
subscription, email majordomo@gocatgo.com with a message of 
subscribe pt-dist
Feel free to reproduce unless marked as copyrighted; please 
include this message with reproductions of the article.

Okay Merlyn, now you're talking my worst fear.  Israel has 
overstepped themselves this time and I'm afraid their actions 
will cause the Arab nations to join with the Palestinians in an 
all out war...possibly with nukes ala Hussein.  World War III if 
we defend Israel.  

I don't think I can get deep enough in the woods if that happens.

Hope you all had a great weekend.  I am determined to treasure 
every moment...I'm worried there could be a limit on 'em.

Program of the dispossessed is key to victory of revolution

-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

The following is an excerpted version of a speech given by 
Nelson Peery at the LRNA Steering Committee meeting in August 
1997.

We should spend a little time talking about this question of the 
line of march because we have been using the term over and over 
again, and after a while in the revolutionary movement terms 
begin taking the place of concepts. But this phrase is so 
fundamental, we keep going back to it to try and understand what 
is meant.

The term "line of march" originated in the military. It looks at 
conceptually how do we get to our target, how strategically do 
we achieve what we are trying to achieve.

I want to make a distinction between what we mean by line of 
march in the military sense and what we mean by line of march in 
the political sense. When revolutionaries talk about line of 
march, we mean the general progression of revolutionary 
development and transformation, something that is entirely 
objective.

The term was first used in the political sense by Marx and 
Engels when they stated in The Manifesto: "The communists 
therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced 
and resolute section of the working class parties of every 
country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the 
other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the 
proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the line of 
march, the conditions and the ultimate general results of the 
proletarian movement."

We were thinking that perhaps it would be worthwhile if we 
grappled with something in history to illuminate this question 
of line of march, rather than just talking abstractly about it. 
It was suggested that we use the lessons of the Civil War and 
Reconstruction. We keep going back to this period in our history 
because it is still determining what kind of nation we are and 
how we relate to the rest of the world.

 

Lessons from history

The first thing we have to say when we talk about the general 
line of march is that politically, slavery disfigured the 
country. There was nothing that was united, nothing that was 
cohesive about the United States because of slavery. The working 
class wasn't cohesive, the bourgeoisie wasn't cohesive, nothing 
was cohesive as long as slavery existed. The revolutionaries - 
and there were Marxist revolutionaries at that time - could not 
even discuss the idea of how the American worker could achieve 
political supremacy. To talk about the worker, the free worker, 
achieving political supremacy in a country that had slavery is 
nonsense. The line of march was the destruction of slavery, the 
growth of an industrial proletariat, the politicization of that 
proletariat, the expansion of industry to its limits, 
irresolvable crisis and the seizure of power by the workers. The 
first task, then, was to do away with slavery.

Despite the fact that the Civil War was a war between two 
contradictory wings of the bourgeoisie, that is between the 
industrial bourgeoisie and the agrarian bourgeoisie, it was one 
of the truly great revolutions in history. When that war ended, 
it ended with the greatest expropriation of property the world 
had ever known, the greatest redistribution of wealth that had 
ever taken place up until that time. It expropriated $4 billion 
in slave property and returned it to the slaves themselves.

The general conditions of the working class and the 
possibilities they faced were decisively and materially changed 
by the Civil War. However, they weren't changed ideologically. 
The concept of races - superior and inferior races - was not 
destroyed with slavery. The second class citizenship of the 
Freedmen was accepted by the militant workers and it spelled the 
doom of the movement.

All kinds of social elements are drawn into the revolutionary 
process. One of the contradictions of revolution is that the 
most consistently revolutionary class is always the least 
prepared to carry out the revolutionary work. They are 
uneducated, they are disorganized, they are fighting one 
another. Therefore, it is almost impossible for elements of the 
revolutionary class to act to seize actual control of that 
revolution. Who seizes control of that revolution are groupings 
that are articulate, that have the ability to publish books, 
that can speak and write. This social element takes partial, 
compromised positions. They take partial positions because 
whereas they were opposed to the existing conditions, they only 
wanted partial resolutions to these existing conditions. They 
did not want to do away with the totality of the existing 
conditions. They wanted to reform these existing conditions 
within the revolution.

This period of our history proves that if the revolutionary mass 
does not take the program of the most oppressed and exploited 
section of society as the program of the revolution it cannot 
succeed. The only consistently revolutionary class in the 1865 
to 1872-73 period was comprised of the Freedman and those 
landless whites that happened to gravitate around them. This 
revolutionary class could not live without the breakup of the 
plantation system and the seizure of power of at least the 
workers and the petty bourgeoisie, (petty bourgeoisie being the 
tradesmen, small farmers and small producers). Despite the 
tremendous revolutionary history they had in Austria, and in 
Germany, and in France, to some degree in England, the workers 
in the United States never understood or they rejected the idea 
that they had to take the program of the Freedman as the program 
of the revolution.

Now let's look at the second lesson of this period. If the 
revolutionary classes do not reject the social ideology of the 
their enemy they cannot win.

I want to restate that the line of march is the dialectic of 
change in objective conditions and the subjective response of 
the masses and, conversely, how the results of the mass response 
immobilizes or frees up the objective conditions for further 
motion. There is no separation between the objective and the 
subjective process. One absolutely influences the other. The 
objective process is definitely impacted by what people do.

During the period the objective situation was moving rapidly 
towards a democratization of the country. It was stopped and 
once it stopped, the reaction took over. Despite the tremendous 
upheavals, the workers never gave up the social or political 
ideology of the capitalists and they never took the program of 
the Freedman as their program. The result was the concentration 
of the wealth in the hands of the few. The Robber Barons did not 
rise from nowhere. They arose from the inability of the mass of 
the American people to democratize this country and redistribute 
its wealth at the end of the Civil War. Here, we see how the 
objective process can be turned, terminated, or accelerated by 
the subjective.

 

Progression of the revolutionary process

It is said so often, but I think it is true and it should be 
said: L.A. was the "shot heard round the world." It notified the 
entire world that in America there is a large and growing group 
of people so alienated from a society based on private property 
that they could do $1 billion dollars of damage in the matter of 
27 hours - a billion dollars of damage and walk away laughing.

That is something new in the United States. The L.A. Rebellion 
signaled the beginning of a struggle between an increasingly 
alienated society on the one hand, and a political 
superstructure on the other that was attempting to stabilize 
itself with the only weapon it has, fascism. As the base of that 
superstructure, that is, the productive relations, 
disintegrates, the superstructure has a less and less stable 
foundation to stand upon. The base of American society is the 
sale and use of labor power. As Jeremy Rifkin points out in his 
book, The End of Work, of 126 million jobs in the United States, 
90 million of them are going to be automated in the next ten 
years. We are talking about the destruction of the base. We are 
not talking about someone losing a job. We are talking about the 
base of society, the base of the police department, the base of 
the army, the base of the court system, the base of the legal 
structure in the United States.

We are talking about the progression of the revolutionary 
process. We see that the rise of fascism today is not the same 
as it was in Germany or Spain. It is rather the struggle of the 
superstructure to stabilize itself as its base, the ground it 
stands upon, becomes narrower and more unstable. The more 
unstable the superstructure becomes the more it has to turn to 
violence in order to stabilize itself.

 

The next inevitable stage: crisis

It has been correctly pointed out that the line of march is, 
essentially, the quantitative stages of development of a 
revolution. The first stage comprises the objective changes, 
that is changes in the economy. The second stage is the 
spontaneous social response to that. The third stage is the 
superstructure responds to the mass uprising. The fourth stage 
is the further development of the objective process (the 
economic forces that are undercutting society) and then crisis. 
All of these stages are interlocked. You cannot categorize them 
and say there's this stage here and that stage there. You only 
say that in the sense of polarity we are, in the main, in this 
or that stage.

It is clear that the productive forces are finishing this stage 
of their expansion and development. The next inevitable stage is 
crisis. The question is, will the next social response again be 
spontaneous uprising or will it be guided by the first stage of 
political and social consciousness?

Uprisings and rioting that everybody says are so horrible, are 
the indispensable beginning of any revolution. Uprisings, 
whether in Watts or Chicago, are the way the mass responds to 
change when that mass does not have organization, does not have 
theory and does not have ideology. This first round is 
indispensable and welcome because it tells us something 
important is happening. The same thing will happen over and over 
and over again, however, unless the ideological, theoretical and 
political conditions of the masses change.

I can assure you that if the response is simply a spontaneous 
uprising, that is all the state will need to consolidate a clamp 
down on the American people making it extremely difficult for 
them to move.

So just to sum up: the conception of line of march is a very 
dialectical thing. History creates the objective conditions as 
does new machinery, conquest, and revolution. But the subjective 
response to the conditions depend entirely on the thinking of 
the people. If they do not respond correctly the cause is lost. 
The line of march is not mechanical or guaranteed in any sense 
of the word.

(c) 1997 by the League of Revolutionaries for a New America. 
Permission granted to reproduce, provided this message is 
included, the article is not changed, and no further 
restrictions are placed on its distribution.

There's only one solution: a cooperative society

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"Marx, lying in his grave, and at present almost universally 
scorned, has a slow smile creeping across his face as he sees 
the convulsions ahead." New Perspectives Quarterly, Fall, 1996

 

In Charles L. Mee's play, Lower Depths, you could hear a pin 
drop when Tertius, a homeless aristocrat from Boston, screams at 
his white, black, Jewish, Bulgarian, Asian and Puerto Rican 
comrades living in an abandoned factory in the rustbelt. "This 
is how it's going to be for everyone in ten years," he warns. In 
this powerful play based on Maxim Gorky's vision of the 
downtrodden leading a social revolution, the audience is 
forewarned that America is poised on the brink of a social 
explosion.

Mee is not the only social critic sounding the alarm. Jeremy 
Rifkin, author of The End of Work, says we are heading for a 
near workerless world and predicts that as a result of the 
robot, less than 2% of the global workforce will be in factories 
in twenty years. Today, less than 2.7% of the world's population 
is engaged in farming, down from 60% in 1850. And, the Japanese 
are working on a robotic melon picker that uses sensors, not 
people, to determine if a crop is ready to pick. Rifkin asks - 
What will become of the people left behind by the technological 
revolution?

As Rifkin proves, the world is an integrated and connected 
whole. The microchip has thrown a radically new quality into the 
global economy. As chips develop, they infiltrate new areas of 
production, increasing output and replacing the need for human 
labor in production. According to a recent United Nations 
report, 80% of people already live in extreme poverty, and 20% 
of those live on the equivalent of $1 a day. At the other end of 
the spectrum, 477 billionaires wallow in unprecedented wealth. 
Something will have to give.

As this society is destroyed by the robot, a new one must be 
born. But in whose interests will a new society be? Will it be a 
modern-day Rome where a small group of exploiters maintain their 
privileges while the exploited majority lives off their crumbs, 
if live at all? Or as Rifkin asks, will the 'end of work' signal 
the beginning of a great social transformation and a rebirth of 
the human spirit?

To answer these questions, we will examine some of the programs, 
schemes, and "wishes" for a more "humane" (and possibly worse) 
capitalism that some leading spokespersons on the left and the 
right are proposing. Our purpose is to make clear that today 
there are no reforms left within the capitalist system. There is 
no "third sector," no redistribution of wealth, no 
capitalist "restraints" no taxing of the rich that can solve the 
fundamental contradiction of capitalist society in the era of 
electronic production. This is expressed in the fact that, if 
people do not work, they cannot eat. Today, the only solution is 
for society to utilize the struggle for reform to take the next 
historical step. That is, to reorganize society cooperatively.

 

Solutions Proposed

It is no surprise that all kinds of conscious forces, from the 
left and the right, are talking about the impending economic 
collapse and putting forward non-partisan programs to forestall 
the inevitable social upheavals. Everyone realizes that the 
economic revolution is having a profound effect on social life, 
from the working-class blacks, first hit by electronics, to the 
formerly secure blue and white collar workers to the middle 
managers, and new books and theories about this are being 
written every day. Peter Drucker, the acclaimed author for 
business executives, warns in Forbes that few can imagine 
the "hatred, contempt and fury" millionaire-bosses have created 
among their middle management professionals. In an article 
published in the Atlantic Monthly entitled, "The Capitalist 
Threat", George Soros, one of the wealthiest billionaires in the 
world, alerts the capitalists to the dangers of the growing gap 
between wealth and poverty. He proposes 'some' sharing of the 
wealth. Republican William J. Bennett, in a speech to the 
National Press Club, warns that unbridled capitalism presents a 
serious problem for all human beings.

Writers like Rifkin, William Greider, author of One World, Ready 
or Not, William Julius Wilson, author of When Work Disappears, 
and Alvin Toffler, author of the well-known book, Future Shock, 
accurately portray the objective nature of the global economic 
crisis. However, much of their writings envision what they call 
a more "humane" or "democratic" capitalism in which the market 
economy is preserved (the system of private ownership of the 
means of production). Greider argues for "owner-workers" so that 
capital can be shared. He cites the paradox of "poverty amidst 
plenty", but argues that this can be reconciled without 
destroying the market system. Rifkin favors transferring a 
portion of the productivity gains from the market to a "third," 
non-profit sector. Wilson proposes a 21st century version of the 
WPA work program and a "partnership" between the private and 
public sector to create sub-minimum wage public service jobs 
that pay 10%-15% below the minimum wage. Toffler favors a 
society where majority rule is replaced by 'minority rule.'

The question is: If technology is eliminating human labor and 
small scale production, while producing more necessities than 
ever in history, why must people work? Why must people still 
engage in repetitive, demeaning or exploited work when human 
labor is no longer required for production of most commodities? 
Why must schemes be invented to create worker-owned businesses 
or new sectors of the economy? Or for people to work at sub-
minimum wage jobs, barely eking out an existence? Why must we 
look backward, seeking to save capitalism? Why not reorganize 
society so that the globe's incredible social wealth is 
distributed to people based on need, and, in doing so, end 
poverty once and for all?

Greider admits that today the world's capacity to produce food, 
for example, has far exceeded the "entire human population's 
need for nourishment." Yet, neither he, nor others, envision a 
world without private ownership of the means of production.

If Marx has a "slow smile creeping over his face," it is because 
he proved the 'secret' of the capitalist's profit and the 
eventual destruction of the system. Surplus value, the source of 
all profit, comes from unpaid labor. Capitalism's survival rests 
on the extraction of surplus value, or profit, on a constantly 
increasing scale. However, laborless production in the robot 
does not create surplus value, thus capital cannot create a 
profit. While it is true that speculative capitalists are raking 
in billions, labor replacing technology increasingly separates a 
new and growing propertyless class from wages and money and thus 
any means of survival. The workers can no longer sell their 
ability to work and the capitalists can no longer sell the 
product of the workers' labor. Objectively, these developments 
signify the end of the capitalist system. No amount of "sharing" 
of capitalist wealth, development of a non-profit or "third" 
sector of the economy or "reducing of the work week" can reverse 
this process.

 

A New Cooperative Society

In a historic sense, the electronic revolution can be compared 
to the discovery of fire. Fire was the foundation for separating 
humans from animals. Today, we can take that final step begun 
over a hundred thousand years ago and leave the dog-eat-dog 
world of exploitation, greed, national, sex and race hatred and 
be free to become truly human. Today, with the unprecedented 
level of productive capacity in electronics, we can only begin 
to imagine the potential of education, communications, pleasure, 
as well as the cultural and spiritual growth of every person on 
the globe. In a new society where the means of production are 
commonly owned, the whole notion of "work" could be redefined as 
one's contribution to society. This new world could not be won 
in the era of industrial society in which Marx wrote, but it can 
be won today. Can we settle for anything less?

If we agree that the "market" economy is obsolete, then the 
question becomes: how will we achieve this new world? And, 
specifically, who will lead us? Toffler, Greider and others bank 
on the world's elite as the leaders and creators of the new 
society. However, the electronic revolution is creating a social 
revolution and the engine of social change is the class 
struggle. Throughout history, as new tools developed, new 
classes arose. Today a new class of propertyless people, 
structurally forced away from production and a new class of 
speculator capitalists, is being formed. The new class of poor 
will move against the private property relations which prevent 
it from eating. Thus, this is the only class in modern society 
where "each for all and all for each" and "from each according 
to ability, to each according to need" makes economic sense. The 
ideals of a cooperative, communist society are no longer 
subjective. They are real, objective, economic and inevitable.

 

An Organization of Revolutionaries

Defending our future depends upon the leadership of an 
organization of visionaries capable of arousing and enthusing 
the masses of people to the goal of the communist reorganization 
of society, not as an ideology but as a practical reality. What 
the American people have lost has been lost forever. We have to 
grab the future, not the past. For this task, an organization of 
revolutionaries is needed that can pull the chain together and 
supply that one missing link. Literally millions of 
revolutionaries are trying to do this. They are exposing 
capitalism and educating people. Elisabet Sahtouris, for 
example, rejoices in "The Biology of Globalization," because the 
words "community" and communal values" are back in our 
vocabulary. The League of Revolutionaries for a New America 
needs to meet these forces and together build an organization of 
revolutionaries that can fulfill its historic task: education of 
the American people so they can gain the economic and political 
power to overturn this system and build a new world.

(c) 1997 by the League of Revolutionaries for a New America. 
Permission granted to reproduce, provided this message is 
included, the article is not changed, and no further 
restrictions are placed on its distribution.




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New times are demanding that revolutionaries take up new tasks

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Everything before us is changing -our institutions, culture, 
family structures and society itself. The League of 
Revolutionaries for a New America must change also to be in step 
with this process. When the League was founded, it was grounded 
among the practical fighters in certain sections of the 
survival, equality and trade union movements. As such, it 
gravitated towards the practical and tactical fight. However, 
the founding of the Labor Party has created the conditions to 
free up the League so that it can develop the theoretical and 
analytical side of the movement.

This situation demands that we discuss the concept of vanguard 
in its relationship to the line of march of the revolution in 
the United States. We do so to get a better understanding of our 
role as an organization of revolutionaries. Therefore, we will 
review the content of the revolutions in this century, look at 
the line of march of our revolution, and, draw conclusions and 
proposals for action.

 

The Line of March and Revolution

The countries that have experienced revolutions in the 20th 
Century have had one thing in common: they have been bourgeois-
democratic revolutions in content. This is true of Russia, 
China, Albania, Vietnam, Cuba, Nicaragua, and El Salvador. Many 
of these countries have also had an anti-imperialist and or anti-
colonial character. In Russia, with its small working class 
concentrated in the European part of Russia, the Bolsheviks were 
able to build a small disciplined party that based itself in the 
key section of the proletariat. Through the Soviets they were 
able to give direction to the larger social movement. They did 
this by concentrating on the vanguard of the proletariat ". . . 
in pre-revolutionary Russia, the metal workers were the vanguard 
of the Russian proletariat. Their conditions in society, their 
social organization in the factories, their militancy, and above 
all their class consciousness made them the vanguard" (O.W. 
Kuusinen, Fundamentals of Marxism Leninism, page 409).

The Bolshevik Party was a highly ideological and disciplined 
organization because it had to win the Russian masses to the 
ideas of socialism. At that time there were two possible paths 
forward to industrialization: one led by the working class and 
the other under the leadership of the capitalist class. The 
country was in the midst of breaking with the feudal fetters 
that restricted the development of capitalism. In other 
countries, the party took a political-military form combined 
with a united front strategy. Here again, the parties were 
highly ideological because they had to win over the other 
classes and sectors by convincing them that socialism was 
superior to the capitalist mode of production and in the 
interest of the people. Thus, industrialization would take place 
with the means of production owned in common, rather than in 
private.

 

Line of March in the United States

What is the content of our time? We live in a society moving 
from an economic base whose foundation was mechanics in 
industrial production to one based on electronics. This new 
economic situation is global. Where imperialism was the apex of 
the capitalist mode of production, globalization is capitalism 
in its descendency. With the new means of production based on 
electronics utilizing very little labor power, commodities are 
being produced with less value embodied in them, this includes 
the commodity of labor power. This is threatening the whole 
bedrock of the capitalist system of production which is based on 
profit being derived from the exploitation of labor power in the 
production process. Every new innovation in the new instruments 
of production lowers the value of the commodities produced. 
Thus, we are moving in the direction of a valueless society. We 
are in the beginning of the end of the capitalist system.

Socially, we are advancing towards a majority movement, similar 
to what Marx and Engels describe in The Communist 
Manifesto: "Our epoch, the epoch of the bourgeoisie, possesses, 
however, this distinctive feature: it has simplified the class 
antagonisms. Society as a whole is more and more splitting up 
into two great hostile camps, into two great classes directly 
facing each other: Bourgeoisie and Proletariat" (Karl Marx and 
Frederick Engels, Communist Manifesto, page, 109).

In previous revolutions, the majority of the populations did not 
have a stake in the common ownership of the means of production, 
and the class or section that did, was its vanguard. In those 
revolutions, the working class was a minority of the population, 
which led the masses of the people, who were mainly peasants. In 
our revolution the proletarian majority has a stake in the 
common ownership of the means of production and will have the 
capacity to represent themselves. This class of proletarians 
will be a practical movement not an ideological movement, and 
therefore they will develop their tactics and strategy.

What are the features of this beginning stage of the 
revolutionary process? This situation is creating a society that 
is being polarized economically and socially. We are moving from 
social polarization to political polarization and entering a 
period of the development of class identity. With the founding 
of the Labor Party, the immediate class interests are being 
united under one umbrella that brings together the interests of 
our diverse class. The role of the Labor Party is to awaken the 
American people through their program of action and to form a 
proletarian army.

Contrary to the situation in Lenin's time, under today's 
conditions there is no need for the organization of 
revolutionaries to direct the immediate practical struggle. To 
do so, confuses the role of the conscious element whose purpose 
is propaganda, with the tactical side of the struggle. This the 
Labor Party can do. The role revolutionaries is to provide 
economic, philosophical and historical understanding to the 
practical fighters; to arm them with revolutionary theory, 
clarity, philosophical understanding, and the historical line of 
march. The organization of revolutionaries doesn't have to 
persuade the practical leaders about developing a society whose 
economic base isn't built yet. On the contrary, our role is to 
point out that capitalism is a fetter on the development of 
society. With the new means of production based on electronics, 
we only have to point out what is inevitable - a social 
revolution that brings the production relations in conformity 
with the forces of production. This means building a society 
where the distribution of goods is based on need.

What is the relationship of the organization of revolutionaries 
and the people's party in the concrete?

The people's party represents the practical fighters, many of 
whom know and will master revolutionary theory. On the other 
hand, the organization of revolutionaries are masters of 
revolutionary theory, with many of them also being practical 
fighters. Both organizations are moving in the same direction 
but have a different division of labor in the revolution. 
Neither one can exist without the other. The practical fighters 
need an institution that knows the science of revolution which 
can teach them theory so that they can develop the movement's 
strategy and tactics. The revolutionaries need the practical 
fighters so that they can put the theory to the test in the 
struggle.

The revolutionaries must build an infrastructure of study 
circles, schools, book clubs, educational societies, sponsor 
forums, radio shows, television, videos, cassette tapes, 
circulate the presses and speak on the leading issues of the 
day. In this way the revolutionaries show the workings of the 
system and why it is outmoded, and they instill in the people a 
sense of entitlement to the means of production.

As a starting point, we should set as a priority the training of 
propagandists who are in position of influencing others and who 
have an interest and calling in propaganda, especially young 
revolutionaries. The understanding of propaganda requires 
particular skills. It requires an understanding of revolutionary 
theory, philosophy, political economy in order to provide 
analysis.

Also, we must make our press and other propaganda accessible to 
the activists in the struggle. This will mean a concentration on 
circulation with a division of labor for subscriptions, bundle 
sales, marketing, and the organization of a distributive 
apparatus. The circulation of our press will tell us whether we 
are succeeding or not.

The content of the revolutionary process taking place today is 
much different than in revolutions preceding ours. The other 
revolutions were bourgeois democratic revolutions and had two 
revolutionary classes capable of leading them - the bourgeoisie 
and the proletariat. In our revolution there is only one 
revolutionary class and in a short time it will be the majority 
of society - the proletariat.

Secondly, the capitalist mode of production is coming to an end. 
It can no longer grow because of limited profits from the 
production process because of the displacement of workers by the 
new means of production based on electronics. This is giving 
rise to severe polarity and will cause class conflict and 
struggle.

The majority of the people will be in the struggle, therefore 
they need a people's party to represent their interests. The 
Labor Party is moving in this direction. It is composed of the 
practical fighters in the diverse struggles that are taking 
place. Its role is to build the proletarian army.

As the revolution moves to this new stage the League must build 
a vast infrastructure of study circles, book clubs, forums, 
educational societies and other propaganda networks. To 
accomplish this the League needs to concentrate on the 
development of propagandists who are in a position to do 
propaganda. And also we must make our press accessible by 
concentrating on circulation. These are the tasks facing 
revolutionaries today.

(c) 1997 by the League of Revolutionaries for a New America. 
Permission granted to reproduce, provided this message is 
included, the article is not changed, and no further 
restrictions are placed on its distribution.




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---------------

We have been in the 20-year war for over 20 years, Ayatollah 
komeni was the first to declare jihad against the United States. 
They have since grown a generation of Islamic hate. The world 
has been burning for 85 years or so, Gasoline, the dragon from 
below the earth.  We are so used to seeing it that we don't even 
know it is going on. It is now almost too late to do anything 
about it. 
  This became a world war on 9-11, make no mistake. We have been 
in recession and class separation for 15 years. The prophecy 
from the biblical era appeared apocalyptic, to us it's just 
another day, unnoticed, until 9-11.
  It has come time for the USA to do something great, or follow 
the written path. With this in mind and the known people in 
control of our fate, I ask these two simple questions;
          If not you and me, then who?
          If not now, when?
 
              Merlyn /|\

Yada Yada Yada...people who produce are evil Robber 
Baron's...People who sit at home watching Jerry Springer and 
collecting welfare are the poor downtrodden. Yada Yada Yada.  
Thank God I live in a country where I can work as hard as I want 
and make as much as I want and I can either give it away or keep 
it...my own decision.  Read Ayn Rand...before it's too late!

Dear Merlyn,
Please don't get me wrong.  I understand your concerns, but I 
find your message oblique.  What do you believe?  What do you 
suggest?

After reading your long posts, you have convinced me, communism
is the way to go. I mean look how well its worked out for the
poor in U.S.S.R, China, North Korea, Vietnam, & Cuba. Not a poor
person left in those countries, no sir! The wealth is spread out
equally and fairly there for sure and the top health care
systems in the world to boot!
 Now that was very nice of you to point out the percieved faults
of America, mainly quotes of people who found it "richly"
rewarding to do so, but I am still not totally convinced this
is the way to go. Whats that you say? Once the Communists come
into power, and I will be happier because I no longer have a
reason to work hard to achieve the things I want for my family.
No matter how hard a individual works, they can only achieve
what another person who does nothing achieves?
 Oh, and there will be no more Bureucarats in the new goverment,
no more power seekers to contend with. They would not dream of 
abusing power and amassing their own wealth under a socialist
goverment. And they would never dream of passing laws to keep
the now equal people subservant. I dont think any of this has
happened in any of the great communist experiments around the
world. Why is it, out of all the communist countrys, say in
1970, there are only a few left. This is the only thing that
concerns me. Im ready to jump on that huge bamdwagon sweeping
the country, ready to give up any personnal wealth I have to
help the poor in this country and abroad. The only problem is,
the League is going to loose quite a few men trying to
get my posessions. Say 2 or 3 men, now multiply that by a large
number (say 10 million, conservativly) and your going to need
a large army to bring all that sharing and caring to America!
 Of course the movement will have to be done covertly through
media manipulation and propaganda. Some of the very things your
pieced together book above was ripping. Also the manipulation
of the citizens through "study circles, book clubs, forums, 
educational societies and other propaganda networks." LOL!
 Stop, your scaring me! Thank our nations founders for the
2nd Amendment. Please enlighten all Americans further, Ben.  

Osama bin Laden(who is now known as simply"Maria")is hiding out 
at my place for awhile.
 Right now,"Maria"is doing dishes out in the kitchen,and God help 
her if she doesn't get them perfectly clean.After that,its time 
for more laundry,then off to bed because she has a busier day 
tomorrow.Sorry for not turning her in,but nobody was lookin for 
her very hard anyway.

Sex change in Pakistan, pre-arranged and of course, in the 
name of Allah (peace be upon the lost member). Works cheap right
now I bet, please keep the Taliban Burka rule in place for
all concerned. I hope you de-liced that thing before you let
it in the house! Im smellin Jerry Springer here, Terrorist
Transvestites invade America! Wait, mayby Geraldo already
beat Springer to that storyline by actually going to Afghanistan.

Its always good you get help that has a price on its head!Now,if 
I can only get my hands on Jessica Walker......life can get awful 
rough in the Midwest in the wintertime......

THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION

Article. III.

Section. 3.

Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only 
in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, 
giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of 
Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same 
overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Clause 2: The Congress shall have Power to declare the 
Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work 
Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the 
Person attainted.

=================================================================
Heeeeers Johnny!

I can not imagine how so much can be written and say so little.  
What is this garbage?  Take it elsewhere.

-->  "We should spend a little time talking about this question 
of the line of march because we have been using the term over 
and over again, and after a while in the revolutionary movement 
terms begin taking the place of concepts. But this phrase is so 
fundamental, we keep going back to it to try and understand what 
is meant.

The term "line of march" originated in the military. It looks at 
conceptually how do we get to our target, how strategically do 
we achieve what we are trying to achieve.

I want to make a distinction between what we mean by line of 
march in the military sense and what we mean by line of march in 
the political sense. When revolutionaries talk about line of 
march, we mean the general progression of revolutionary 
development and transformation, something that is entirely 
objective.

The term was first used in the political sense by Marx and 
Engels when they stated in The Manifesto: "The communists 
therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced 
and resolute section of the working class parties of every 
country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the 
other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the 
proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the line of 
march, the conditions and the ultimate general results of the 
proletarian movement."

BLAH-BLAH-BLAH...

John
E...

Reading your posts is similiar to listening to Charlie Brown's 
homeroom teacher in a Peanuts cartoon.  She also made much noise 
saying absolutely nothing.

John
E...

This site is about 9/11; WTC; daisy-cuttin' sand-niggers and 
America.  Please don't take up space with your socialist 
drivel.  There's a war on.  You're against the Muslim terrorists 
or you're with them.  Or as you socialist shits might 
understand : Which side are you on ?  Make a deal, eh ? I really 
don't mind you posting all your sympathies for poor lazy slobs.  
But can you keep 'em much. much shorter ? Deal ?

Amerikhu Akbar !!!

die john

for someone who dont think my posts amount to much you sure kant 
stop shooting off your big fukin mouth about them can you 
fuckhole?

John,
I know you've read some of Ayn Rand's works...did you read "We 
The Living"?  It's a birds-eye view of what it's like to become 
Communist, whether you want to or not.  *shudder*

Walter?  Could I borrow Maria to help me move?

om/cf,
The penalty for treason is death...I'm betting he won't be 
charged with treason for that reason.  You and I, and I think 
most of us, would accept a decision to try him for treason, and 
to sentence him to death...but, it's a political gamble for 
whoever makes the call.  

Well it is obvious that we all have opinions, I'll keep my pants 
up so mine doesn't show as best I can :o). As for the long post, 
don't have that kind of time and see the want to convince is 
what strikes me for the time invested. 
  Missin' Yes what & who leave us feeling a bit helpless, but 
the first echo can be what starts the avalanche. That is what 
Usama was hoping for. But I think the opposite tide is really 
what is due. An overwhelming want for peace pervades, not war or 
domination. No one snowflake thinks it started the avalanche but 
one has to be the first to move. At the risk of flaky thought:o)
  There is enough hate, but only pushed to the surface due to 
the human want for security and future for our children and 
ourselves. It is a pompous chest beating that is a normal 
reaction to fear. It takes years of research and practice to see 
through this coming end of the millennium. Few like me thought 
it would be important, back when we were very young. I did and 
now see why it is so needed. 
  The coming week will really be hard and will go down as such 
even if little happens. Many troubled and evil people will feel 
compelled to act out due to the times. Best we can do is blanket 
it all with calm understanding and swift justice. We must cast 
hate aside and think clearly. This takes a conscious effort and 
I suggest you do as your ability allows. If simply admitting 
anger and then casting it out feels right, do it. Then as these 
events occur you will make the right choices in this critical 
time.

      On the last day of the year, a full moon will look over us 
all. I will be there with you and all of the world, seeking 
peace. You are welcome to join in. If we all do it, it will be 
an event worthy of the cause. 
         From the circle of light and peace
                  Merlyn /|\

you guys are getting all mad at us but we didnt do anything 
wrong so the next time you want to diss us remember we havnt 
said or done anything wrong so
 SLEEPING GIANT
dont piss the rest of us canadians off   OH IF YOU DO I WILL 
PERSONALLY FLY DOWN THERE AND KICK UR AMERICAN ASS
ITALIAN GUY
dont you dare yell at thE RUSSIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT 
RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING
JUST FOR THE RECORD  ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT ALL OR INISENT 
AFGANIES SHOULD DIE ILL FLY DOWN AND KICK YOUR ASS TOO!!!!

...and fails to enter even one single line of original thought 
(all text copied from elsewhere, completely failing to credit 
the originator)...

Take it elsewhere pea brain.

Your communistic ideals are are long gone along with your 
party...

John
E...

Hey Missin',   I read it many many years ago.  You have re-
sparked my interest to re-read her work.  I have a fair 
collection.  I was but a youngster first time around.  It was a 
die-hard liberal who originally introduced me with the hope I 
would see the error of my beliefs upon reading.  Boy was he 
wrong.  LOL

... with regard to Johnny Walker - The recent government 
releases speak of his actual involvement with al Qaeda, terror 
training, chemical uses, etc.  I think it unlikely they would 
release such info without plans to try him, followed by life 
imprisonmen, or potential execution.  The execution of an 
American homegrown international terrorist would send quite a 
wide signal of intolerence for terrorism far across the planet, 
and would greatly serve our interest.  Personnally, I believe he 
to be simply young, and (big time) dumb.  Somewhat like the 
unnamed poster above.  A cushy life sentence is the probable 
outcome.

...and with regard to bin Laden - I believe his location is 
known.  Or he is already dead.  In either case, for long haul 
public support for this action it is probably best we Americans 
have no definitive answer.  The lack of answer serves for 
greater continued needed support to complete the mission(s) 
ahead.

John
E...

fuck off bin laden you cock sucker

Something very disturbing, how did the leader of Taliban slip 
away, how did Osama and his right hand men slip away and in 
Philippine how did the Kinappers (Abu Sayyaf) and the Rebels 
(MNLF) slip away. All these people are surrounded and yet manage 
to escape. Hmmmm? How they manage to escape?

The people who are trying to catch them or destroy them better 
think twice on who they are working with to capture these 
terrorist. These terrorist live on if not destroy. They will 
come back when they are strong again.

As for the Palestinian and what the Isreal is doing story. Mr 
Arafat has been in his post for so many years. Has he manage to 
stop the militants, No. A Few days ago he made a speech about 
telling the Hamas and the Jihad group to stop their suicide 
bombing of innocence Isreal civilians. Let see whether this 
order has been taken seriously by the Hamas and Jihad group. 
There is no point of him making peace statement and the Hamas 
and Jihad group doing the opposite. Mr Arafat should also 
understand that how many Isreal's Prime Minister has he 
negotiate with, and how many peace agreement has he signed and 
how many time these agreement has bee broken. Which side broke 
the agreemnet first. It can be just a simple bomb that kill 1 or 
2 people and the other retaliate and escalate the violence. The 
one who broke the agreement is the guilty one.

The Isreal's leader have given up on signing an agreemnet with 
Mr Arafat if he could not control the other group, so the Isreal 
feel that it is better to negotiate with probably the leader of 
Hamas and Jihad and see what is their demand and if they (Isreal 
can agree on it) then there would be peace.

As I mention before, if the Isreal retaliate in similarity of 
what the Hamas and Jihad is doing by bombing civilian positions 
of Palestinian teritory,You cannot imagine how many palestinian 
would be killed. I pray that Sharon will not even think of doing 
such act.

Each time I watch the news I see Palestinian parading tenager 
and children killed by Isreal fire. The big question is how are 
these children killed? Are they the one I saw throwing stone  at 
Isreal soldiers with automatice weapon.

Please don't get me wrong. I am not against the Palestinian or 
for the Isreal it is just the fact that I find. If you do a poll 
with the Palestinian and Isreal, on who want peace. You would 
probably know the result. It is very sad to see the suffering of 
the Innocence Palestinian and Isreal civilian who really want 
peace.

How nice it would be if Islam, Jewism and Christainity would 
just sit down and discuss with an open heart, to search the God 
of Abraham(Ibrahim), Isaac(Isa), Jacob(Yacob), Joseph(Yusoff), 
Moses(Musa) and all the prophet in the Bible and Quran instead 
of disagreeing with each other through our human response. I 
don't think it is possible but can't we see the ancestral 
believe that the GOD that we worship and love (not fear) are the 
same.

Just Dreaming.

As the old saying, let make peace not war.

ps man utd rocks

what the hell is all your guys problems with all this nonsense 
of swearing, the canadian dude is right we have done nothing to 
hurt you, in fact we have helped you out so you should say thanx 
but then again half your heads are fucked up, except the canadian
CANADA ROCKS, KICKS ASS ESPECIALLY USA ASS

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
The only reason that you do not get attacked on a daily basis is 
because we protect your ass.  You would be nothing without us.  
Do you even have your own military or just a bunch of "mounties" 
in funny suits.  Take off, eh.

What the fuck are talking about?Do YOU know?

What the fuck are you talking about?Do you even have a clue?

Now we have the rag heads under control in Afghanistan. can we 
now turn to the other terrorists in the world like the IRA who 
still bomb England i.e. a few weeks ago some fucker just about 
failed to let a bomb in Birmingham city centre at 10.30 when all 
the peolple were making their way to the clubs and hundreds of 
people could have been hurt or KILLED. so would the USA stop 
giving them terrorist fucker money (those people who ask money 
for the cause in Irish pubs) and lets kick their asses Because if 
you (USA) can take out a country for one act of terrorism we must 
be able to hit them back one hundred fold for the pain they have 
caused us. 

From the people who helped you win your war, so now help us win 
ours 

I have all the respect in the world for England,but there does 
seem to be a problem with giving the Irish home rule(like has 
been promised to them many times).England keeps telling them they 
 must meet demands made by England before they can have home 
rule.These demands are met,then new demands are made.And on and 
on.
 We will be more than happy to help you,if you really need the 
help,but we will not be willing to fight battles for unkept 
promises.

afganistan is a small nation of terrosits who should shove it up 
and would be a phcopathic killer who would hang you with a thong 
and drink your bodily fluids and fuck your dead carcus

phcopathic> This pretty much explains and makes the whole post 
invalid.

this rock and Canada should shove it upthe usa ass before the us 
shoves it up afganistans fuck hole

Yes,and this explains my whole case against "Meds by Mail".

THE AFGANS WANT TO HAVE THEIR HEADS LOOKED AT WHILE THE US ARE 
AT IT TELL THEM TO SLAP BIN LADENS MAM. WE SHOULD TIE BIN LADEN 
TO A LAMP POST WITH HIS GENITALS AND GAG HIM WITH A SWEATY JOCK 
STRAP. THE BLOODY US ARE BUGGER ALL USE, DROPING BOMBS ON THERE 
OWN TROOPS AND RED CROSS CENTERS. WHAT A FUCKING BUNCH OF 
CRETTINS'. BUSH IS AS THICK AS SHIT. ANY AFGANS SHOULD BE SLUNG 
OUT OF ENGLAND, WE DON'T WANT SHITTY MOTHER FUCKERS IN THIS 
COUNTRY. BURN THEM ALL!!!     !!!DEATH TO ALLAH!!!
UP WITH ENGLAND
UP WITH AMERICA

AND FOR GOD SAKE, DROP A FUCKING BOMB ON AFGANISTAN

BNP rule don't dis

What the heck are the Canadian's yelling about, guys?  Did I 
miss some nasty post somewhere?

England, we have one slight problem.  You see, we live in a 
Capitalist Democracy, where people are allowed to earn as much 
money as they want and give it to whomever they want.  I 
understand that there are charities (questionable though they 
might be) who take donations from well-meaning Americans and 
give the money to the IRA.  I don't think you are correct in 
saying that our government gives anything to the IRA.  But, some 
Americans evidently DO support the IRA.  I think the only thing 
that we can do without infringing on our constitutional rights 
is to freeze the assets of organizations that fund terrorism.  
This is something that is being done now for the first time in 
history.  I do know that our government has provided support for 
England against the IRA, although not all the details as the 
information I received was borderline classified.  England has 
never asked us formally to intercede...perhaps she believes that 
she can take care of the problem herself?  And, perhaps we 
haven't interceded for the reasons Walter stated...that I don't 
know.  I can't imagine us ever bombing the IRA as we have the 
Taliban though, can you?

i think justice has got it right!   !!!well said!!!
what the fuck have canada done????????????????????
sod all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARE YOU SAYING WE SHOULD BOMB THE FUCKING IRA????

Where do they come from?  I don't know people who think like 
BNP.  At least I hope I don't.  Hey BNP and those who believe 
as, - Do you know or communicate with anyone who's IQ is higher 
than a field mouse?

John
E...

Are these true representations of our populace?  Thank God the 
education bill is being signed today.  I'm sorry vouchers 
couldn't be part of it.  But who really believed they would be?

Walter, your humor is growing on me.

Just to clarify from what I know of British/Irish politics, 
because Northern Ireland still has at this point in time more 
protestants than Roman catholics within it's borders, going by 
normal democratic rules, the voting majority hold sway ie; the 
protestant Unionists. They in many ways are more patriotically 
British than the British themselves in that they proudly fly the 
British Union Flag. Their community carry the day politically 
just by weight of numbers, as far as the destiny of the province 
is concerned. (On a related point Americans by and large, from 
observation, unite behind the 'stars and stripes' banner more 
readily. I would assume it has a more unifying significance. You 
don't see many, if any, British Flags flying above people's 
houses here, the direct opposite applies in Unionist parts of 
N.I., they're everywhere, it's symbolism is not really as 
unifying as your nation's flag). Successive British Governments 
have probably wished in many ways, to hand the Province back to 
the Irish Government but the majority in that Province have 
always voted in majority against that happening. Hence the Irish 
Republican's objections to 'majority rule' which in normal 
circumstances applies in most other democracies without any 
problem. Hence the terrorism, the bombings, the beatings etc.

What seems to have come to the attention of the U.S. 
adminstration in particular, is the drug smuggling activities of 
I.R.A. operatives in South America, in return, they give their 
terrorist training to forces in those countries linked to drug 
supply/smuggling. Nice guys huh. Though Unionist terrorists are 
no better either, we'd sure appreciate it in the U.K. (along 
with 'England with love' of course) if the Real I.R.A. had 
access to much less if not zero money from whatever source, 
wherever it comes from, throughout the world. I think we in 
Britain could probably manage things from there.   



  

BIN LADEN IST EIN ISLAMISCH ARSCHLOCH. WIR MUSSTE BOMBE 
AFGHANASTAN!!!!

Do you smell Zyklon-B around here?

Radio...

Of course not! Don't be an idiot.

You said "Where Americans spend their money is an indicator of 
what they 
think is important. The day before September 11th the Red Cross 
received $1,000 in donations . Within two weeks after Sept 11, 
it had raised $202 million. Within a month that had doubled. By 
November all donations associated with September 11 had reached 
at least 2 billion. According to the US Department of Health and 
Human Services more than 600,000 people go to bed homeless each 
night. I praise all the artists who have come forward and 
donated their talent to the victims of the attack on the World 
Trade Center Towers. Over $150 million was raised in one night. 
The social ills, the problems of the poor and destitute, are not 
irresolvable. We have the money, the vision, the know how, the 
technology, all of the resources necessary to resolve these 
problems. Clearly what is lacking is a government willing to 
mobilize those resources on behalf of the poor. And there is a 
profound lack of general will. In fact when people found out 
that not all of the nearly $500 million they donated to the Red 
Cross would be going to the victims of September 11, but would 
be distributed across the areas of concern addressed by the Red 
Cross, many wanted their money back."

The reason many, including the famous, wanted ANSWERS...NOT 
their money back...was that the Red Cross has a history of using 
80% of what it receives for Administration Costs!!!  When people 
found out that 70% of the total take for the WTC tragedy would 
NOT be used for the victims, they rebelled.  As they should.

And, by all means, feel free to go out and take in some homeless 
people.  I believe that you'll find that most of them prefer to 
live in the shadows.  The ones who would like a place to live 
know how to WANT one...but are unwilling to give up drugs and 
alcohol in order to keep a job so that they can pay for one.  
But Hey! This IS America...they can choose to live however they 
want to.  But, Maybe it's below some people's dignity to 
say "D'you want fries with that?" on their way up the same 
ladder we've all had to climb. 

What is Zyklon-B?

A FAR right group in the U.K. Not worth anybody's time.

Dear U. K. Citizen,
Thanks for the heads-up.  Would they be pals of our old 
friend "Vices"?

Arafat is a terrorist.

See how easily I get frustrated.  I can't take it when people 
make fun of me.  When I am in school people make fun of me and I 
just get really upset about it and go and cry in the bathroom.  
I am really just a little pussy who can't handle the truth or 
someone else's opinion.  I try to act tough and smart online to 
make myself feel better.  I think that I am the only person in 
the world and only my opinion matters.  Maybe instead of 
insulting people right off the bat, I should try and carry on a 
rational conversation first before running my big mouth.  I 
think that is why I have no friends (well except for Zac, my 
imaginary friend).  I hope all of you are happy.  You made me 
cry.  Just go away!  I never want to talk to any of you ever 
again!!!

What is Zyklon-B?

 This was a gas used in the concentration camps in Nazi Germany 
during WWII.Many different gases were tried,and Zyklon-B had a 
reputation of taking longer to kill than others.The guards in the 
camps liked the performance in the chambers,but hated cleaning up 
afterwards,because it provided for some very"messy" deaths.I 
won't go into more detail....
 Even though Radio Europe and I see things much differently,the 
reference to Zyklon-B was very astute.

Even when I was writing that post,I was wondering if you would 
be soon reading it,and would correct me,since it was only half 
fact.I should have thought more about it beforehand,but thanks 
for your information.

I am so tired of all these fuckers saying that Bin is here and 
there and everywhere.....I AM HERE TO TELL YOU ALL THE TRUTH.   
BIN LADEN IS WITH ELVIS.  THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS BIN LADEN AND 
ELVIS SIGHTINGS IN NOVA SCOTIA AND THEY WERE LAST SEEN TOGETHER 
TALKING TO A 7 11 MANAGER THAT WAS A COUSIN OF BIN'S.  ELVIS IS 
TRYING TO MAKE A CITIZEN'S ARREST BUT BIN IS TELLING HIM THAT IF 
HE DOES THAT, EVERYONE WILL KNOW THAT HE IS NOT DEAD.  ELVIS

I am so tired of all these fuckers saying that Bin is here and 
there and everywhere.....I AM HERE TO TELL YOU ALL THE TRUTH.   
BIN LADEN IS WITH ELVIS.  THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS BIN LADEN AND 
ELVIS SIGHTINGS IN NOVA SCOTIA AND THEY WERE LAST SEEN TOGETHER 
TALKING TO A 7 11 MANAGER THAT WAS A COUSIN OF BIN'S.  ELVIS IS 
TRYING TO MAKE A CITIZEN'S ARREST BUT BIN IS TELLING HIM THAT IF 
HE DOES THAT, EVERYONE WILL KNOW THAT HE IS NOT DEAD.  ELVIS

I am so tired of all these fuckers saying that Bin is here and 
there and everywhere.....I AM HERE TO TELL YOU ALL THE TRUTH.   
BIN LADEN IS WITH ELVIS.  THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS BIN LADEN AND 
ELVIS SIGHTINGS IN NOVA SCOTIA AND THEY WERE LAST SEEN TOGETHER 
TALKING TO A 7 11 MANAGER THAT WAS A COUSIN OF BIN'S.  ELVIS IS 
TRYING TO MAKE A CITIZEN'S ARREST BUT BIN IS TELLING HIM THAT IF 
HE DOES THAT, EVERYONE WILL KNOW THAT HE IS NOT DEAD.  ELVIS HAD 
A LIME SLURPEE AND BIN HAD A GRAPE ONE.  I HAVE PHOTOS TO PROVE 
IT.   I WILL BE GOING ON EBAY SHORTLY TO SELL THEM TO THE 
HIGHEST BIDDERS.  

Missin': At a guess I'd say the two individuals in question 
probably mix in social circles at opposite ends of the social 
ladder and political spectrum, but one thing that they 
definitely do share is that they're both head over heals in 
love....with themselves. For the head's up..you're most welcome!

Walter: No trouble..that's the situation as far as I can see it 
in N.I., but boy are there some funny types showing up or what? 
Doesn't say much for British education system either. Oh well...

Radio Europe: Well spotted!  

This site is wacked, Don't you all know that Usama Bin Laden is 
hold up in the vegas hotel as a door donkey? When I tipped him 
he said Jihad! Must have been the yamica! Well any way I shoved 
a dradel up his ass and put a minara on his head and now he is 
doubling as a shrine. 

Maybe we all should read the Red Cross pamphlet,"Death and 
Disaster:How To Make It Work For You",or"Human Suffering and Your 
Financial Future".
 It sucks,but people do these things all around the world 
whenever disaster occurs.It's hard not to jump on the bandwagon 
when you see so many others doing it,and most of them will never 
be punished,or even brought to trial for some of the things 
they're doing.

Fucking Canada! We should have guessed it. And what has
happened to dead Elvis, he used to be a good dead singer
popping up in truck stops and such to mingle with ordinary
citizens. Now he's a traitor and has to be put to death again,
no injections though, it will probably just give a good
head rush!
 Geraldo is all over this breaking news, on a red eye from
Afghanistan to Nova Scotia and he will get to the bottom of
it, or at least say he witnessed the two perpetrators. Oh, ya,
with a tear in his eye while reciting the Lords Prayer.

12/18/2001 : "Czech authorities insist that Atta met with Iraqi 
spy" 

Czech authorities are standing by their account of a 
clandestine meeting in Prague between suicide hijacker 
Mohammed Atta and an Iraqi diplomat, dismissing media 
reports that cast doubts on whether the pair ever really met. 
Officials first disclosed the meeting in October, saying Atta -- 
who piloted one of the jetliners that slammed into the World 
Trade Center on Sept. 11 -- met in April with Iraqi diplomat 
Ahmad Khalil Ibrahim Samir Al-Ani. 
In the absence of any conclusive audio or video evidence 
the meeting took place, Czech media have begun to dispute 
whether it ever happened. 
Even President Vaclav Havel has distanced himself from the 
claim, saying earlier this month that he believed there was 
only "a 70 percent chance" that Atta met with the Iraqi, who 
since has been expelled. 
Citing anonymous intelligence sources and members of 
Prague's Arab community, the Mlada Fronta Dnes 
newspaper reported Friday that the agent who claimed 
firsthand knowledge of the meeting at Prague's international 
airport may have mistaken Atta for a businessman who 
frequently met with Al-Ani -- or with a Pakistani citizen of the 
same name. 
But Interior Minister Stanislav Gross, responding to the 
report, said he stood by his original statement that Atta and 
Al-Ani met at least once in Prague and said it was based on 
a reputable account from BIS, the Czech counterintelligence 
agency. 
"Minister Gross had the information from BIS, and BIS 
guarantees the information," his spokeswoman, Gabriela 
Bartikova, said Monday. "So we stick by that information." 
In Washington, U.S. officials told The Associated Press they 
also still believe the meeting occurred. 
The Iraqi government has steadfastly denied a meeting, 
suggesting that such reports were intended to make Iraq 
appear to have been involved in the Sept. 11 attacks and 
justify making Baghdad a U.S. target in the war on terror. 
Before meeting with President Bush in Washington last 
month, Czech Prime Minister Milos Zeman said Atta had 
contacted Al-Ani to discuss an attack on the Prague building 
that serves as the headquarters for U.S.-funded Radio Free 
Europe/Radio Liberty. 
Zeman later backed off that statement, saying it was just a 
hypothesis raised by the intelligence services. Security 
around the RFE offices has been noticeably tightened as a 
precaution. 

By ONDREJ HEJMA
The Associated Press
12/17/01 2:01 PM

PRAGUE, Czech Republic 

=======================

12/18/2001 : "Iraqi ex-guard fights deportation" 

IMMIGRATION officials are trying to deport a former member 
of Saddam Hussein's personal guard who sought asylum 
in Australia more than a year ago. 
The man is appealing a tribunal decision to deny him 
refugee status. His identity is being kept secret to prevent 
victimisation should he fail and be returned to Iraq. 
Federal Liberal MP Ross Cameron said this case 
highlighted the need for careful screening of all boat arrivals 
to weed out criminals and terrorists. 
"We have one person in detention at the moment who 
arrived by boat who was found to have . . . destroyed his 
papers, but after thorough search and investigations he was 
found to be on the personal guard of Saddam Hussein in 
Iraq," he said. 
But a spokesman for Immigration Minister Philip Ruddock 
confirmed the man arrived by air on an international flight, 
not by boat. 
Opposition families spokesman Wayne Swan said security 
at airports was more important in the fight against terrorism 
than expensive maritime patrols. 
"Terrorists don't arrive on boats, they generally arrive by 
other means and in this country if they were to arrive, it 
would be by aircraft," Mr Swan said. 
The Iraqi man claims to have grave fears for his safety if 
forced to return home but immigration officials believe his 
membership of Hussein's elite personal guard disqualifies 
him from claiming refugee status. 
A spokesman for Mr Ruddock said the man would not face 
any serious threat in Iraq if his identity and bid to win asylum 
in Australia remained secret. 
"Our refugee obligations do not extend to someone involved 
in serious criminal activity," he said. "It's a serious character 
issue." 
The man will remain in detention at an undisclosed location 
until his case has been resolved. 
Hussein's personal guard functions as a kind of secret 
police and has been linked to serious human rights abuses 
including summary execution and torture. 
The man claims to have been low-ranking but immigration 
officials have not been able to verify that and say his 
seniority is irrelevant. 
Mr Ruddock's spokesman also revealed "a number" of other 
Iraqi and Afghani asylum seekers were being investigated 
for possible military links. 
Many were young men of conscription age who may have 
been involved in military activity. 
Such links were not grounds for disqualification, especially 
since many are forcibly drafted, but needed full investigation.


Jim Dickins 
18dec01
news.com.au

===============================

hey missin' 
are you stoned or somethin'cuz you sound like some sort of 
reject did your mom beat you with the ugly stick cuz u really 
pissin me off.
 
justice
you know what Rick is right. canada so kicks ass.so go fuck your 
mom or something cuz i dont like spoiled ass holes like yourself

hey BNP 
you can kiss my ass fucker cuz we havent done anything to you
 
canada was voted the best place to live a few years in a row so 
dont go and get all stired up just because we're proud of our 
country and we would rather live here then any other place in 
the world 
canada rocks 
and if anyone  anyone wants to say otherwise ill  kick you ass 
word to the wise
watch wat u say fucks 
cuz im just pissed off now
you go RICK!!! 

hey why are you responding to every thing that might insult you 
well sorry but lm just speeking my mind so if you've got a 
problem with that screw u

you know not all canadians suck 
i know some jack asses but
youll just have to deal
hey i know a few

i would just like to say
thanx for the support.

I LOVE CANADA SO FUCK U YOU IF HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT ILL KICK 
YOUR ASS TOO
SO SHUT YOUR MOUTH CUZ I DONT CARE
HAVE A GOOD DAY 
SHIT HOLE 

I assume you read a post earlier to a fellow American regaurding
bin Luckys location meant to be funny. I know its cold up there
now, but lighten up. Sorry if I offended any Canadians. Now I'll
be up all night worried about my offensive behavior! 
 Fuck U? Is that a traditional Canadian greeting? 
 I asked my ass, and its not very concerned over your threats!
Its obvious you dont care, no need to state it. I did have a
pretty good day overall, thank you for caring.
 Shit Hole? Now that was not very nice of you. So what do you
Canadians think of South Park?
 Have a good night you Canadian.

and if anyone  anyone wants to say otherwise ill  kick you ass 


Let's study this:
You mean,you'll kick me ass?  LOL!!!

What's with the Canadiens ?  Why are they all pissed off ?  I 
thought we vwere friends with them. Are they just mad because 
USA now produces better hockey players ?

-I'm sick of the media ,too.  Except Asleigh Banfield.  She's 
hot.  Poor Ashleigh has a cold in her nose today.  Do you think 
she's getting laid in Afghanistan ?

-So ObL got away, probably.  I'm pissed and so are lots of 
Americans.And our country was pretty pissed off to begin with.  
I'm sick of these Islamic bullshitters.  "Mother of all 
battles". remember that from Sodom Hussein ?  Kicked his ass in 
100 hrs.  Now we have "We will fight to the death"  which must 
have been mis-translated when they've meant all the time "We 
will run away."   I once posted my favorite (or as you brits 
say "favourite") war story: the Kabul office of Al-Jazeera 
getting bombed.  I now have a new one.  bin Laden's punks who, 
for some reason were not summarily executed, comming down the 
mountain and crying like fucking babies "Don't give us to the 
Americans". HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  Real tough 
jihadis.  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Don't Tread on Me.

word to the wise
                                     watch wat u say fucks 
                                   cuz im just pissed off now

 You SHOULD be pissed off.You should also be embarrassed since 
most children at the age of 8 have a better sense of sentence 
structure,and a better command of their own language.If you 
really love Canada(capital C),get at least a 6th grade 
education,so at least people won't have to wonder if cold 
temperatures cause brain damage.Make your country proud of you.
 I have no doubt that you are a fighter.I'm very sure you've had 
to fight many times to preserve your right to remain a moron,and 
I'm sure there will be many more battles in the future.I myself 
am not worried about your coming down here since I'm sure the 
complicated business of operating a motor vehicle is far beyond 
your capabilities.
 Best of luck to you,in your rich and rewarding career,unloading 
trucks on the night shift at the snowcone factory.
 

Your narrowminded uneducated minds are polluting the world, stop 
raising iron fists to women and children, carpet bombing no-body 
and in the end you have but one scapegoat and an entire country 
devestated...how very American of you.
When you people learn that guns dont solve problems mabey you 
willlearn to think outside of your box. Death to the new world 
order!
Viva revolution, it starts in your mind!

You of course are forgetting the 15,000lb 
daisy-cutter!Booooooom!
 Death,destruction,and fuck you!

MMmmmmmmmmm a bit pissy? someone weee in the coffee this 
morning? Must be, all Canadians are just perfect and couldn't 
possably be anything but. Let me put you wise to a secret. 
You Suck. And before you spout shit figure this, it's no secret. 

Yes I guess Usama is just a woman after all. And Afghanistan was 
a prestene and untouched country before we came along. And we do 
target just the women and children dancing in the streets now 
that the Taliban are gone. And the women with their burkas on 
are only hiding mutalation and disfigurement from their owners. 
Heck now more than three Afghanistans can be found together, 
much better target! And shure we'll forgive them for supporting 
a lunatic or two, even if they decide to fly jetliners full of 
people and fuel into tall buildings full of mothers and fathers. 
After all we only gave Afghanistan back to the rightful owners. 
We shouldn't chase out all those women and children wearing 
black turbans and bombs. And I know all the taliban were doing 
was military occupation of a country that the USA just five 
years ago was supporting and rebuilding. Never mind the billions 
of US tax dollars spent on human aid. That must all be some kind 
of illusion in YOUR MIND.         GET A GRIP!

let me get this straight you think i work at some snow cone 
factory well my friend you are saddly mistaken 
shit Mr kiser calls ill talk to you latter after school

You obviously have the education of a 3rd grader (that excellent 
Canadian education system).  I can tell by your trouble with 
sentence structure and spelling.  You are an ignorant moron.  
Walter pegged your career right on the nose.  Did the Canadian 
Mounties tell you American sucks?  I think they are just pissed 
because they have to wear those stupid uniforms that make them 
look like something out of Toy Soldiers.  Seriously I think the 
residents of Montana could take over Canada if they wanted to.  
Pray that the USA doesn't want to expand its territories to the 
north.  I think you need to apologize for giving us Bryan Adams 
again too.  And really, what the fuck is a canuck?  Take off, eh!

You said you want to suck something?? i cn rite lik a tooie too. 

What happened? Whats up with the Canadians? I have been away 
from the board for a week or so and so much has happened! Lots 
of new names and am very happy to see some of the old 
ones....Missin' Congratulations on your upcoming move and 
wedding,I wish you and yours much happiness...

>   THE ROAD TO TREASON
>   By Jeff Jacoby
>   The Boston Globe
>  
>   December 13, 2001
>  
>       It isn't the case that the parents of John
> Walker -- the Marin
>   County child of privilege turned Taliban terrorist
> -- never drew the
>   line with their son.
>  
>       True, they didn't do so when he was 14 and his
> consuming passion
>   was collecting hip-hop CDs with especially nasty
> lyrics.
>  
>       And true, they didn't put their foot down when
> he announced at 16
>   that he was going to drop out of Tamiscal High
> School -- the elite
>   "alternative" school where students determined
> their own course of
>   study and only saw a teacher once a week.
>  
>       And granted, they didn't interfere when he
> abruptly decided to
>   become a Muslim after reading *The Autobiography
> of Malcolm X,* grew a
>   beard, and took to wearing long white robes and an
> oversized
>   skullcap.  On the contrary: His father was "proud
> of John for pursuing
>   an alternative course" and his mother told friends
> that it was "good
>   for a child to find a passion."
>  
>       Nor did they object when he began spending
> more and more time at a
>   local mosque and set about trying to memorize the
> Koran.
>  
>       Nor when he asked his parents to pay his way
> to Yemen so he could
>   learn to speak "pure" Arabic.
>  
>       Nor when they learned that his new circle of
> friends included
>   gunmen who had been to Chechnya to fight the
> Russians.
>  
>       Nor when he headed to Pakistan to join a
> madrassah in a region
>   known to be a stronghold of Islamist extremists.
>  
>       His parents also didn't balk when he went to
> fight in Afghanistan
>   -- but that, at least, they didn't know about:
> Walker hadn't told
>   them.  Perhaps by that point he had learned to
> take their consent for
>   granted.
>  
>       Only once, it seems, did Frank Lindh and
> Marilyn Walker actually
>   deny their son something he wanted.  When he first
> adopted Islam and
>   took the name Suleyman, they refused to use it and
> insisted on calling
>   him John.  After all, he had been named for one of
> the giants of our
>   time: John Lennon.
>  
>       Their refusal must have amazed him.  For as
> long as he could
>   remember, his oh-so-progressive parents had
> answered "Yes" to his
>   every whim, indulged his every fancy, permitted --
> even praised -- his
>   every passion.  The only thing they insisted on
> was that nothing be
>   insisted on.  Nothing in his life was important
> enough for his them to
>   make an issue of: not his schooling, not his
> religion, not his
>   appearance, not even whether he stayed in America
> or moved -- while
>   still a minor -- to a benighted Third World
> oligarchy halfway around
>   the world.  Nothing.  Except, of course, their
> right to call him by
>   the name of their favorite Beatle.
>  
>       Devout practitioners of the self-obsessed
> nonjudgmentalism for
>   which the Bay Area is renowned, Lindh and Walker
> appear never to have
>   rebuked their son or criticized his choices.  In
> their world, there
>   were no absolutes, no fixed truths, no mandatory
> behavior, no
>   thou-shalt-nots.  If they had one conviction, it
> was that all
>   convictions are worthy -- that nothing is
> intolerable except
>  intolerance.
>  
>       But even in Marin County, there are times when
> children need to
>   hear "No" and "Don't."  They need to know that
> there are limits they
>   must respect and expectations they must try to
> live up to.  If they
>   cannot find those limits and expectations at home,
> they are apt to
>   look for them elsewhere.  Newsweek calls it "truly
> perplexing" that
>   Walker, who "grew up in possibly the most liberal,
> tolerant place in
>   America . . .  was drawn to the most illiberal,
> intolerant sect in
>   Islam."  There is nothing perplexing about it.  He
> craved standards
>   and discipline.  Mom and Dad didn't offer any. 
> The Taliban did.
>  
>       Even when it was clear that their son was
> sinking into Islamist
>   fanaticism, they wouldn't pull back on the reins. 
> When Osama bin
>   Laden's terrorists bombed the USS Cole and killed
> 17 American
>   servicemen, Walker e-mailed his father that the
> attack had been
>   justified, since by docking the ship in Yemen, the
> United States had
>   committed "an act of war."  Lindh now says that
> the message "raised my
>   concerns" -- but that didn't stop him from wiring
> Walker another
>   $1,200.  After all, says Dad, "my days of molding
> him were over."  It
>   isn't clear that they ever began.
>  
>       It undoubtedly came as a jolt to his parents
> when Walker turned up
>   at the fortress near Mazar-i-Sharif, sporting an
> AK-47 and calling
>   himself Abdul Hamid.  But the revelation that
> their son had enlisted
>   in Al Qaeda and supported the Sept. 11 attacks
> brought no words of
>   reproach -- or self-reproach -- to their lips.
>  
>       Walker deserved "a little kick in the butt"
> for keeping them in
>   the dark about his plans, his father said, but
> otherwise they just
>   wanted to "give him a big hug."  His mother,
> meanwhile, was quite sure
>   that "if he got involved with the Taliban he must
> have been
>   brainwashed. . . .  When you're young and
> impressionable, it's easy to
>   be led by charismatic people."
>  
>       Yes, it is, and it's a pity that that didn't
> occur to her sooner.
>   If she and Lindh had been less concerned with
> flaunting their
>   open-mindedness and more concerned with developing
> their son's moral
>   judgment, he wouldn't be where he is today. 
> Walker is responsible for
> 
>   his own behavior and he will pay the price the law
> requires. But his
>   road to treason and jihad didn't begin in
> Afghanistan.  It began in
>   Marin County, with parents who never said "No."

Well, the hour nears when I'll disconnect this 'puter, and take 
myself off to the woods for good.  I'm really gone miss all you 
regulars.  I'm gonna try to post a few last thoughts and wishes 
for you all today.  Please forgive me if I forget anyone.  
Walter, I won't forget you...I promise...but, you'll be last, ok?

John, You were the person I felt the greatest bond with when I 
first came to this board.  You and Simon were the lone voices of 
reason on a board full of what I at first perceived to be a 
bunch of ignorant rednecks.  Simon has been gone a long while, 
and I worried about whether you had left too, at one point.  I'm 
glad you're still here to provide sound rebuttals to the 
ignorant posts that pop up.  I hope you'll continue to be the 
Voice Of Reason here.  It's been good knowing you, and thanks 
for the support.

Noah, I'll miss you in a big way, hon.  I've worried about you 
like a mother for a child when you were so exhausted and 
stressed.  I've been glad to see you recover from most of that 
in my time here.  Keep the Faith, my friend.  I'm glad to know 
that you'll still be here to remind Justice U.S.A. that God 
loves her whenever things get to be too much for her.  And, 
thanks for the Creme Brulee recipe...I'll be thinking of you 
when I make it.

Eagle-Eye, I apologize for any redneck remarks that I directed 
at you personally.  I've come to understand that you have a 
great mind, and that most of your comments that I disagreed with 
were part of the helpless frustration of excessive anger.  We 
all have to deal with anger in our own way.  I'm very glad that 
I got a chance to know you well enough to appreciate you.  Take 
Care, Friend.

E.S.D., Thanks so much for all your valuable and enlightening 
posts.  I hope you'll stick around providing food for thought.  
There are some truly great minds here that eagerly await your 
next post.

Radio-Europe, I can't say I've always understood everything 
you've had to say.  But, I've always understood that your intent 
was kindness.  I've sensed a gentleness with you that I've much 
appreciated.  Thanks for being here.

U.K. Citizen, I'm so glad you came back and forgave me for the 
inadvertant insult.  I'm glad you're here to remind us of our 
alliance.

Italian Guy, Thanks for being an ally.  Keep up the posting, k?

Justice, I don't remember exactly when I decided that I liked 
you.  But, I'm glad I got to know you well enough to decide 
that.  Take care of yourself!

Justice U.S.A., Sweetie, I really worry about you.  I know how 
hard it has to be to be in NYC these days.  I know that your 
grief is new everytime you walk out the door and into the 
street.  Don't worry about bin Laden...I really think John made 
a good point in that if he's dead, we don't really want anyone 
to know yet.  We have DNA from his half-brother, so we can 
confirm it if he is.  But, he has no place to hide if he's still 
alive.  We'll get him eventually.  In the meanwhile, try to 
think of the thousands of Afghanis who now know so much more 
freedom than they knew before.  We've given many of them their 
lives back.  It comforts me to know that.  I love ya, Gal...and 
God Loves You too! Don't forget either of us, ok?

om/cf, Hang in there Buddy.  And take care of Walter for me, k?  
I sense that you two are becoming good friends.

Merlyn, Thanks for sharing your visions with us.  I pray that 
this is the time you'll be off, but I'll remember New Year's Eve 
to send up that prayer for peace.  Anything else I should do?

Spy, Please come back.  I miss your posts...and I'm sure I'm not 
the only one.

All, the reason I came here in the first place was because my 
friend ~snake-eyes~ sent me the site.  At that point, she was 
highly enamored of the views of Eagle-Eye and wanted me to see 
them too.  My initial reaction was the same as some of you 
(Walter?)...that this  place was full of ignorant rednecks who 
just wanted to nuke something. (try popcorn...99grams of fat if 
it's the buttered kind) I saw John and Simon trying to talk 
sense to some of them, and I joined in.  As I've gotten to know 
some of those people better, I've realized that this was a place 
to vent the anger and frustration that we were all feeling.  
And, that's a good thing.  The BEST thing that has come of this 
is finding out that America doesn't have the market on ignorant 
rednecks cornered. (so glad that Canada weighed in with their 
own yesterday)

I'm not done just yet, so please feel free to remind me who I've 
missed so that I can finish up a little later?  Thanks.

I thought this board is for comment, sympathy, remarks, facts 
and suggestion to events regarding sept 11. Now I see people 
cursing at one another with the bad words. Next time you forget, 
just look at the background of this board.

I suggest you just leave these people alone, after a while they 
will disappear after boring themselves. The more you reply with 
your own Swearing, the more they succeed in having a dialoque 
with you.

Since there are a lot of comment on muslim, palestinian and the 
muslim world, I would like to hear more comment from the world 
muslim community. Don't worry about those idiots who use those 
bad words against you, if your comment is constuctive for world 
peace and better understanding on Islam, those words would not 
effect you at all. We can have nice exchange of view on 
religion, understanding, knowledge regarding Sept 11 and events 
that follows

As for those who prefer to shit hear, I cannot say, you are not 
welcome, it is not our control. It is yours. So do as you wish 
and may peace be with you and may the cry of innocence victims 
bring you a better understanding of what is happening around the 
world. (you can start cursing if you want to, it doesn't hurt me 
at all)

Take care all of you and may GOD enlightened your heart and mind 
and give you his blessing so that we can love one another as GOD 
has love us.

Hi, so you be gone for sometime, I supposed. Once again May the 
Good lord shine his blessing on you and your hubby and give you 
beautiful childrens in the coning future. I believe with you 
wisdom you will give them all the love and knowledge to make 
this world a better place in the near future. God Bless you and 
you loveones. Merry Christmas and a Happy and Properous New Year.

Best regards

On Sunday morning, watch the sun rise. Think for a while, and 
remember this. For this will be the day of the winter solstice, 
the beginning of the return of light after darkness. Saturday 
will have been the shortest day of the year and the last of the 
millennium. Understand how nature has given after taking away. 
  After this and some personal reflection, remember the child 
Jesus, rising from the womb. A gift from god. Every legend and 
lesson has a base in truth. Look at the trees, as you ascend 
into the woods. Notice the roots below, the trunk and the 
branches and remember, as you see above, there is below. This 
thought will take some time to bring answers, but it will and 
every day. 
  On the coming Sunday, breath in the New Year and millennium. 
Then realize, the prophecy is past.
              With blessings
                  Merlyn /|\

N.C. Gal, you've been so quiet lately, that I nearly forgot 
you.  That would be a crying shame.  I hope your son is well, 
and will get to come home soon.  Please Thank him again for me, 
and I wish you both a Merry Christmas, and a Happy and Peaceful 
New Year.  

Fact Finder, Thanks so much for your input here.  I've greatly 
enjoyed reading your posts, and appreciated your insights where 
my own knowledge has failed to be adequate.  I wish you Peace 
now and always.

Everyman, Don't stay away too long.  I'm sure everyone has been 
missing you as much as me.  It's been good knowing you.

Ok, this is it.  It's time to pull the plug.  I appreciate all 
of you for your input, and sharing of views.  Smiley, I almost 
forgot you...Keep the Faith!  This has been a good place to talk 
about what's been uppermost in my mind since Sept. 11th, and a 
good place to rip a little redneck hide occasionally...just to 
keep the anger drained off.  I've learned a bunch from all of 
you, and I won't forget you.

Walter, I don't know why...but, you are the hardest person here 
for me to say good-bye to.  I knew it was gonna be tough, that's 
why I saved you for last.  Maybe it's because I believe that we 
share a whole bunch of views...more even than either of us 
talked about here.  Maybe it's because I misjudged you 
initially.  Maybe it's because I had fun bashing you way back 
when...I mean that in the most respectful way.  I like your 
mind, even if I don't always agree with everything you say.  I 
hope you'll take care of yourself.

Merry Christmas
Happy Holidays
I wish you all a Peaceful and Joyous New Year

Good-Bye

I will miss you.

Bin Laden needs to be killed!!!!!!

Call me now

Osama Jr. should die to

Take care of yourself Missin'.  I hate to see you go.  I will 
miss you.

Your quote:
"OH IF YOU DO I WILL PERSONALLY FLY DOWN THERE AND KICK UR 
AMERICAN ASS ITALIAN GUY
dont you dare yell at thE RUSSIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT 
RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING"

1) my ass is Italian;
2) yelling at the Russians? I don't know what you are talking 
about;
3) did we ever post together??
4) YES, COME PERSONALLY - FURIO CARMIGNANI, 
VIA G.LEOPARDI 192/4  6th FLOOR, NAPLES ITALY - I WANT TO SEE.

Oh, don't mention it!
It's a pleasure, with such a people around here...
I'm going to keep on posting.

Once again Missin', you take care now and best wishes for the 
future for you and yours.

theE.S.D.: "In the News"...now that's what like I to see! Just 
file those bulletins in, as and when....welcome back.

Everyman: How's the Christmas shopping coming along?, don't tell 
me you've already done yours! Me, I leave it until the last hour 
on Christmas Eve just before the shops shut, well O.K. I 
lied,....maybe the last half hour.

Spy: I somehow sense your presence...:-)
 

Good luck to you in the future and practice catch & release
always. I sure wish they would quit doing it in Pakistan though.

Thanks for your kind thoughts.  Best of luck to you!
'I'll be missin' you!'

Christmas Shopping?  I'll be joining you in the ranks of the 
midnight shoppers...still trying to get packages in the mail, 
along with fighting w/ my car!  (The "Silver Bullet" has the 
upper hand right now...)

Blame Canada

Sheila: Time's have changed
Our kids are kids are getting worse
They won't obey their parents
They just want to fart and curse!
Sharon: Should we blame the government?
Liane: Or blame society?
Dads: Or should we blame the images on TV?

Sheila: NO, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame Canada
Sheila: With all their beady little eyes
And flappin heads so full of lies
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Sheila: We need to form a full assault
Everyone: It's Canada's fault!

Sharon: Don't blame me
For my son Stan
He saw the darn cartoon
And now he's off to join the clan!

Liane: And my boy Eric once
Had my picture on his shelf
But now when I see him he tells me to fuck myself!
Sheila: Well, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame Canada
It seems that everythings gone wrong
Since Canada came along
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Some Guy: There not even a real country anyway

Mrs. McCormick: My son could've been a doctor or a lawyer it's 
true
Instead he burned up like a piggy on a barbecue
Everyone: Should we blame the matches?
Should we blame the fire?
Or the doctors who allowed him to expire?
Sheila: Heck no!

Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Sheila: With all their hockey hubbabbalooo
Liane: And that bitch Anne Murray too
Everyone: Blame Canada
Shame on Canada
The smut we must stop
The trash we must smash
Laughter and fun
must all be undone
We must blame them and cause a fuss
Before someone thinks of blaming uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuusss






 

The Pakistani armed forces that I've seen have uniforms right 
out of my girls' Catholic school.  These are our allies ?  God 
help us.

You DO have a valid point there!  However, we can get some 
feisty Girl Scouts to go over there and slap the crap out of 
them if they can't handle the problem.  

I blame Canada for Missin' leaving us.

Bye Missin'

with love,

John
E...

Bark...Bark... " I saw Bin played golf with Tyson and OJ 
Simpson in CANADA !!! AND THEY WENT TO ADULTS MOVIES IN LAS 
VEGAS BEFORE TYSON PLAY BOXING GAME... WHAT THE FUCK THEY DOING 
AROUND HERE HUH  MUSLIMS ?

Weapons make a fight an inhuman thing. They detach us from the 
face of death, making it easy to kill. Worse yet is the 
cowardice of suicide bombing, Using the excuse of Dogma for not 
even facing himself after the act. The loss of family, society 
and community leaves us very alone in a mass of heartless 
people. These scars are passed from generation to generation, 
thousands of years later great great grandchildren, fighting 
over their forefathers pain. 
  Two thousand years ago a voice was heard. A child was born to 
us all. His message rings out clearer today than the thunder of 
a thousand bombs. For Christ put himself as sacrifice for all to 
end this pain. Two thousand years later his message resounds, 
let there be peace. Just a few days from now the time of 
judgment will have past, our course determined by our own 
actions. Terrorism cannot be stopped until the pain is over. The 
world has spoken this day! The countries of the earth have 
finally said "no" we will not let it go on. Terrorism has been 
going on for all of humanity, now it must stop. 
  Here is the real deal. It must be stopped with kindness. 
Killing won't stop it. To stop terrorism will mean everyone, yes 
everyone must be kind. We all must cast hate, sacrifice it, and 
turn from it. We give Afghanistan back to its people as our ACT 
OF KINDNESS. With each person there is this choice. 
   In these days, two thousand years later, remember the lesson 
of Christ. The giving of life is of god, sacred, as is the earth.
                       Merlyn /|\

Me too . all arabs knews that Bin just fucked his mind and 
ran around to playing with OJ and Tyson who bited holyfield's 
left ear twice time what coward huh ... OJ's dick is 
enlargerment by sucking from muslim people and bin's mouth that 
is why his mouth is so ugly...anyway we would telling on them 
that they played golf in canada... their father Ali " retired 
from boxing" he will slapping their ass and straight their ass 
hole up 

u suck!

u suck!

Bin laden you fuckin cocksuker what the hell is you god dam 
mother fuckin problem. what do you think your god dam 
accomplishing by terrorising America. Canada is just like 
America. We feel there pain. so stop fuckin terrorising the world
just because you don't like your self. stop killing inosent 
people for your plesure. and by the way when they find you 
you will be wiped of this planet and so will all of your 
terrorisim networks around tyhe world. If i ruled afganastan i 
swear to god i would hunt you down and kill you my self you 
mother fuckin cocksucker.
                       From:What a canadian 

Fuck you bin laden 
i would toucher you by  getting the afghan soleders to rip of 
your balls and through them and feed them to wild animals then i 
would rip out your heart wile you are still alive. 

Agendas and personal goals, often touted as gestures of peace.
Wearing a mask, and facing to the east.

Were we to see Islam in the years gone by,
We'd have known it for its ways.
Now we stand daunted asking why,
As each life passes like the passing of the days.

Brought to these people, a face to see,
Some two thousand years ago, to understand.
In their language a man says, from hate let us be free.
Yet two thousand years later the blood still runs in the sand.

For it is true, religion has no meaning,
With out nature man has no mother.
For the dogma in mans mind is all so demeaning,
Each person must learn to be good to each other.

From Nature, Moon and Sun we must learn,
In our life s efforts day by day.
If it is for peace our hearts yearn,
Then it is from nature we will learn the way. 

Men speak of their agendas one after another,
My land, My God, My way is all I can hear.
Then in a silence, a whisper from a brother,
Much too quiet for the anger of the world I fear. 

Yet in my heart I feel it is there,
From one to another, crossing oceans and mountains,
until each and every heart whispers the desire.
For our children, brothers and sisters we care,
As we cast away our hate forever into the fire.

Soon the whisper soars in the face of all hate.
Now the anger can't hide.
No longer, for the world just can't wait.
The time is now for peace to be the over-whelming tide.

listen here you piece of shit i will pull your tounge out and 
put it on top  of a dresser and nail it down with a rusty nail 
and a hammer. and put your nuts in a salad shooter and feed the 
to you with a fork thats been up your ass. plug yor ass with 
with your small cut off penis so you cant shit out your balls 
bitch.

Little known to the media, Bin Laden was last seen swallowing 
his balls, with his toung nailed to a dresser. Saddam, fearing 
the same fate is having a sex change operation and moving to 
Afghanistan, wearing a Burka and singing as to avoid detection. 
  Arafat & Sharon are going to be in the up coming Olympic 
games, facing off in a fight to the death. China will reside 
over the battle. If either one survives they will be given a bag 
of sand to pack up their ass and a match.
  

National ID, you, everything you do and own, controlled by 
government and no answer to the terrorist threat. 
http://www.backwoodshome.com/columns/wolfe0111.html
Worth reading

Well all I gotta say is Holla

Have a Holla-day!

Elvis and Bin were seen at a Dairy Queen in Spring Falls 
Nebraska.  They purchased two black and white milkshakes and 
bro9wn bonnet ice cream cones.  They then were seen driving off 
in Elvis's mercedes at a very high speed to stop at a nearby 
buther shop to purchase ten pounds of bacon,  thirty pounds of 
port chops,  an ENTIRE rack of Pork loin and fixin's.  Where's 
bin, is almost as difficult as finding WHERE's WALDO?  He has 
blended into the crowd quite successfully and is being seen with 
Elvis on a regular basis.   Please keep your EYES OPEN and 
notify the board of the next sighting.  Have a lovely day,  I 
have just finished making FOUR TRAYS OF CHRISTMAS FUDGE from 
scratch and am now softening the butter for butter cookies.   I 
will be sharing all with my friends on here.  The rest of you 
fuckers get coal..... lol.

The idea that Arab terrorists needed to teach American John 
Walker "how to avoid attracting attention in airports" makes me 
laugh!  The man was a foot soldier.  They should let him go like 
all the other Taliban foot soldiers, not prosecute him for the 
special crime of being an American!  His existence embarasses 
the administration, however.  Walker is a devout man who joined 
the Taliban because he believes sincerely in their cause.  
George Bush tries to demonize his targets and make them appear 
less than human to the American people.  When a fellow American 
is one of his dehumanized victims, the US people feel guilty.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...I strongly disagree 
with yours! John Walker knew what he was doing and therefore 
should be punished to the max..I have no sympathy for him what 
so ever..I wish they would try him with treason..In my book he 
should never be called an American he's nothing but a traitor...

John Walker should spend the rest of his life, along with all 
the other captured taliban, digging out body parts from the WTC. 
Then they should be hung drawn & quartered and used for shark 
bait. Poor misled boy MY ASS! His parents need a check up from 
the neck up! It is long overdue, RESPONSABILITY, needs to be put 
back into children via a good hard spanking and the word NO 
needs to be put back into their parents dictionary.   

Amen... sounds good to me

Tsk tsk.  Now is it just me or do people come here to just 
pat themselves on the back, to make sure that they're still the 
majority...or the minority for that matter, and to just 
basically spout off a clusterfuck of racist bullshit.  
   I've been watching all of this for a while, never really 
bothering to say anything, until a few days ago that is.  So 
let's see, you chased off Tyler Durden, Ben, Zac, and someone 
named UK Voices, well aren't you proud of yourselves?
   I was curious as to why Walter, Ben, Zac, etc were 
impersonated as they all claim to be, and frankly, obviously 
were, so I tried a little experiment.  All those long posts a 
few days back, yeah that would be me, and in the wake of that 
large brick of text, a few people claiming to be me popped up.
   It wasn't even restricted to slightly intelligent, though 
misdirected people, so as you've noticed, all sorts of bigots 
sprung up, most of them with a rudementary grasp of the english 
language.
   Now, this brings me to my real question here.  Do these 
people use the names of others becasue they're spineless little 
swine, or because they dislike the person behind the name enough 
to try and deride them by writing little stories which are 
supposedly that person's confessions of a sort?
   The way I see it, it depends on the situation, but hey, while 
I'm here, I'd enjoy input.

Its just you.

you guys got no cocks, no balls, nothing, America is for people 
who dont want to kill 2500 people or whatever you cocksuckers 
did so if your a pussy ass towel head,take the turban off, wipe 
your ass with it for all i care and take you $16.25 in life 
savings and rent a camel

Well said. And may He bring peace to us all, starting with you. 
Have a wonderful Christmas.

Meet Me In The Stairwell
                 Author Unknown

You say you will never forget where you were when you heard the 
news on September 11, 2001. Neither will I.
I was on the 110th floor in a smoke filled room with a man who 
called his wife to say "Good-bye." I held his fingers steady as 
he dialed. I gave him the peace to say, "Honey, I am not going 
to make it, but it is OK...I am ready to go."

I was with his wife when he called as she fed breakfast to their 
children.
I held her up as she tried to understand his words and as she 
realized he wasn't coming home that night. 

I was in the stairwell of the 23rd floor when a woman cried out 
to Me for help. "I have been knocking on the door of your heart 
for 50 years!" I said.
"Of course I will show you the way home - only believe in Me 
now." 

I was at the base of the building with the Priest ministering to 
the injured and devastated souls. I took him home to tend to his 
Flock in Heaven. He heard my voice and answered.

I was on all four of those planes, in every seat, with every 
prayer. I was with the crew as they were overtaken. I was in the 
very hearts of the believers there, comforting and assuring them 
that their faith has saved them.

I was in Texas, Kansas, London. I was standing next to you when 
you heard the terrible news. Did you sense Me?

I want you to know that I saw every face. I knew every name - 
though not all know Me. Some met Me for the first time on the 
86th floor. 

Some sought Me with their last breath. Some couldn't hear Me 
calling to them through the smoke and flames; "Come to Me... 
this way... take my hand."

Some chose, for the final time, to ignore Me. But, I was there. 

I did not place you in the Tower that day. You may not know why, 
but I do.
However, if you were there in that explosive moment in time, 
would you have reached for Me? September 11, 2001, was not the 
end of the journey for you.

But someday your journey will end. And I will be there for you 
as well. Seek Me now while I may be found. Then, at any moment, 
you know you are "ready to go." 

I will be in the stairwell of your final moments.
         

Looking back, I can honestly say I never had a disappointing x-
mas as a kid. I didn't get EVERYTHING but I never got stiffed 
outta the stuff I wanted most. Now, it's going to happen to me.  
For  x-mas, I want Osama bin Laden dead.  Ithink I'm going to 
be  disappointed. Shit.

Yes this place is a cesspool of crap. Mmmmmmmmmmm interesting 
the crud found here, least we can do is have a sense of humor. I 
frequent many other sites and have several identities, never 
know what mood I might be in. But you can't fake creative work. 
And you can't fake an attitude! But best of all I get a grip 
just reading the shit here. And if I don't like it I can trash 
the best of them. But no I don't fake it. Not you or anyone 
else. Not this ID or any of my others. Usually ends up being a 
kid or a old grumpy dude. 
  But just for the record, Who are you.. Who Who Who who.. who 
the fuck are you??? You can go sleep at home tonight if you can 
get up and walk away. 

John Walker should be brought back to US. Show him the meaning 
of religion not only Islam. Show him the happening around the 
world today. 90 percent are Islamic problems (sorry to say that) 
but you can see for yourself. You may ask me to see it in the 
muslim world view. Yes I did, and I can see that it is the poor 
islamic countries where people are striving to stay alive not 
the rich islamic countries that the problem occur. So as I 
mention many time is these rich islamic countries doing enough 
in helping their poor islamic brothers countries or are they 
supporting some people in these countries to voice their 
frustration, through means of terrorism, which will not help 
them but drag them down further. Can someone please explain.

After realising the above, he should be shown the sadness that 
the terrorist has cause to his own country, where children, 
parent, spouses lose their love ones in Sept 11. Show him, what 
the allies has been doing, not only bombing strategic position 
but also giving aids. Show him the people around the world who 
is against the Islamic fundamentilist and not against Islam.

And maybe,after all the above, if his brain is still working. 
The US inteligence might get some info about the network he is 
working for.

Just Dreaming

12/20/2001 : "An Iraqi Defector Tells of Work on at Least 20 
Hidden Weapons Sites" 

An Iraqi defector who described himself as a civil engineer 
said he personally worked on renovations of secret facilities 
for biological, chemical and nuclear weapons in 
underground wells, private villas and under the Saddam 
Hussein Hospital in Baghdad as recently as a year ago.
The defector, Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri, gave details of 
the projects he said he worked on for President Saddam 
Hussein's government in an extensive interview last week in 
Bangkok.
Government experts said yesterday that he had also been 
interviewed twice by American intelligence officials, who 
were trying to verify his claims. One of the officials said he 
thought Mr. Saeed had been taken to a secure location. The 
experts said his information seemed reliable and 
significant.
The interview with Mr. Saeed was arranged by the Iraqi 
National Congress, the main Iraqi opposition group, which 
seeks the overthrow of Mr. Hussein. If verified, Mr. Saeed's 
allegations would provide ammunition to officials within the 
Bush administration who have been arguing that Mr. 
Hussein should be driven from power partly because of his 
unwillingness to stop making weapons of mass 
destruction, despite his pledges to do so.
Mr. Saeed's account gives new clues about the types and 
possible locations of illegal laboratories, facilities and 
storage sites that American officials and international 
inspectors have long suspected Iraq of trying to hide. It also 
suggests that Baghdad continued renovating and repairing 
such illegal facilities after barring international inspectors 
from the country three years ago. 
Spokesmen for the Central Intelligence Agency and the 
Defense Department's Defense Intelligence Agency 
declined to comment about Mr. Saeed or whether they had 
interviewed him.
Charles Duelfer, the former deputy chairman of the United 
Nations panel once responsible for weapons inspections in 
Iraq, said that Mr. Saeed's account was consistent with 
other reports that continue to emerge from Iraq about 
prohibited weapons activities. "The evidence shows that 
Iraq has not given up its desire for weapons of mass 
destruction," said Mr. Duelfer, who was the highest-ranking 
American on the United Nations panel.

Evading Restrictions

In the interview, Mr. Saeed said Iraq had used companies to 
purchase equipment with United Nations blessing, and 
then secretly used the equipment in its unconventional 
weapons program. One such firm, he said, was 
Leycochem, a construction materials company based in 
Cologne, Germany, that has long done business in 
Baghdad and other Middle Eastern countries.
In a telephone interview today, J rgen Leyde, the managing 
director of Leycochem, said that his limited contracts with 
the Iraqi ministries of oil and industry have nothing to do 
with unconventional weapons and had been approved by 
the United Nations.
Separately, Mr. Saeed had told representatives of the Iraqi 
National Congress, which helped Mr. Saeed flee Iraq last 
August, that Iraq had tested chemicals and biological 
agents on Shiite and Kurdish prisoners in 1989 and 1992 at 
undisclosed sites in the Iraqi desert.
Mr. Saeed said that his work for the government's Military 
Industrialization Organization and for a company associated 
with it, Al Fao, continued until just before he was arrested on 
what he called trumped-up fraud charges and imprisoned 
last January in Hakamiya, where political prisoners are 
held. He said that he bribed his way out of jail last summer 
and fled Iraq after receiving a tip that he would soon be re- 
arrested.
To support his account, Mr. Saeed provided copies of 
contracts, including one involving his company, the Iraqi 
industrialization group and Al Fao.
Mr. Saeed said that several of the production and storage 
facilities were hidden in the rear of government companies 
and private villas in residential areas, or underground in 
what were built to look like water wells which are lined with 
lead-filled concrete and contain no water. He said that he 
was shown biological materials from a laboratory that was 
underneath Saddam Hussein Hospital, the largest hospital 
in Baghdad.
Mr. Saeed said that he had not personally visited the lab and 
was not certain whether it was a storage facility for germs 
and other materials to be used in the program or a place 
where actual research and development was conducted. 
"They brought me this material to ask me whether or not it 
had expired," he said. The Iraqis and another contractor who 
brought him the material to examine "told me where, and 
the conditions under which it was stored, and asked me to 
tell them whether it might still be good, even though it had 
been kept beyond the expiration date."

Visits to 20 Sites

He said, however, that he had personally visited at least 20 
different sites that he believed to have been associated with 
Iraq's chemical or biological weapons programs, based on 
the characteristics of the rooms or storage areas and what 
he had been told about them during his work. Among them 
were what he described as the "clean room" of a biological 
facility in 1998 in a residential area known as Al Qrayat.
Most of the time, he said, no research or development was 
going on at those places while he visited, because his work 
involved preparing the rooms to be used for such 
dangerous research. Mr. Saeed said that his company had 
specialized in filling cement cracks in the floors and walls of 
such facilities, lining their floors and walls with layers of 
epoxy paste and other substances that would prevent leaks 
and enable them to be easily decontaminated, and injecting 
cement walls and floors with additives to resist chemical 
corrosion. 
Mr. Saeed said that over the years he had also picked up 
some odd jobs. In 1999, for instance, associates in the Iraqi 
intelligence service had asked him to help them design a 
better glue for the Defense Department's hand grenades. "I 
devised a better glue for them," he said, "which could hold 
together at higher levels of heat."
Not all of his work was for the military, he said. In 1998, he 
received part of the contract to build the sauna rooms, 
swimming pool, and gym of Al Salaam Palace, one of the 
many lavish, sprawling palaces that Mr. Hussein had built. 
He said he had also built Mr. Hussein's first whirlpool bath.

By JUDITH MILLER
International

==========================

Discovered: bin Laden's delightful new Kandahar home 
(Filed: 16/12/2001) 


David Harrison gains exclusive access to the house - with its 15 
bedrooms - that the al-Qa'eda chief was having built


IT is a house that ordinary Afghans could only dream of living 
in, and so, now, must Osama bin Laden. Before America 
interrupted his plans, al-Qa'eda's leader was building a lavish 
home for himself and senior members of his terrorist network.

While millions of Afghans starved in refugee camps or struggled 
to survive in primitive houses with no water or electricity, the 
Saudi Arabian-born son of a construction billionaire was 
preparing a home that would allow him to plot his next terrorist 
outrages in comfort.

The Telegraph yesterday gained exclusive access to the house, 
hidden behind 7ft-high walls in a corner of the sprawling 
airport at Kandahar, the Taliban's spiritual home. 

The airport was one of al-Qa'eda's main bases. It was used to 
store arms, plan military campaigns and provide living quarters 
for senior officers - most of them Arabs - and their families.

Senior Afghan military and police officials confirmed that the 
new house belonged to bin Laden. One said it was "obscene" that 
a foreigner could inflict so much suffering on the Afghan people 
while secretly building himself an opulent home on their land.

The house was almost finished when the onset of American bombing 
halted all work. Al-Qa'eda soldiers remained guarding the 
compound until last week, when they were captured or driven out 
after a fierce battle with anti-Taliban forces. 

The blue and white painted house is part of a four-building 
compound measuring 150 yards by 100 yards. It includes a mosque, 
a conference room and up to 15 bedrooms. 

Some of the many bathrooms have bath tubs - nothing unusual in 
the West but extremely rare in Afghanistan, where most people 
wash with water from wells or streams. The bathrooms are tiled - 
another rarity in Afghanistan.

The conference room and other parts of the complex are painted 
in pastel pinks and blues.

Many of the doors have handles inset with a semi-precious stone. 
The door and window frames are of finely carved wood and glazed 
with tinted glass to keep out the heat as well, perhaps, as 
prying eyes.

The house that bin Laden built was being plumbed for hot and 
cold running water and wired for electricity. Most of the wiring 
is finished and ready for the chandeliers and lamps that never 
arrived.

Outside, broad concrete paths link the four main buildings. 
Between them rectangular beds have been cut ready for plants 
that were never planted.

A basement beneath the mosque contains boxes of bathroom tiles, 
bottles of paint thinner and dozens of paintpots, most of them 
empty. Nearby are three roll-up mattresses, a gas stove and a 
kettle, probably used by decorators until their work was brought 
to a premature halt.

It is impossible accurately to assess the value of the bin Laden 
house but one government official estimated the complex at 
 50,000, compared with about  400 for the average Afghan house.

There are many signs that the compound was used as a redoubt by 
al-Qaeda soldiers during the fighting last week. 

The structures are not badly damaged but walls are riddled with 
bullet holes, most of the glass is shattered, debris is 
scattered everywhere and there are craters in the floor and on 
the walls, probably caused by grenades.

In the grounds lay parts of American cluster bombs that were 
dropped when al-Qa'eda forces were still holed up in the 
airport. 

A spokesman for the Afghan United Front, formerly called the 
Northern Alliance, said: "It is offensive to the Afghan people 
that this house was being built. At least now we know he will 
never move in."

The future of the house is uncertain. The Afghan United Front 
spokesman said that many people would probably want to see it 
demolished but that it was more likely to be used by aviation 
officials once the airport reopened.

He said: "At least that would mean that the people of 
Afghanistan got something useful from bin Laden. But it is small 
consolation for his murder and destruction."
  





 

starve thy people as to rule the world.
hide behind thy people as to dupe the world.
"god";they see him everyday in the mirror.

The ego is bigger than the man. I read today Saddam has released
his second novel to rave reviews by the goverment controlled
Iraqi press, imagine that! You'll read it and damn well like it!

the league or what ever it is   is  not a good thing    

who ever wrote this  garbage    get a life  and enjoy life      
you only live once   and then your dead..  and you should be dead 

because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about  

when one looks in a/the mirror and sees their "god";they are 
a "dog".they are a perversion.

Microsoft is purchasing Best Buy Inc.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/arts/newsid_172100
0/1721628.stm

Thursday, 20 December, 2001, 17:08 GMT 
Saddam 'second novel' in print

A new book published in Iraq is believed to be the second novel 
written by President Saddam Hussein. 
Al-Qala'ah al-Hasinah - The Fortified Castle - has hit the 
shelves in bookshops and libraries in Baghdad, with the state-
run television station hailing it as a "great artistic 
work". ..................
================================================================

 then I ripped the Burka off her quivering body only to find
she had a long beard and was less than less than the lovely
princess I had dreamt of. Then I said "get the fuck out of my
bed Osama you loser bitch!"

Iraq: Saddam's Romance Novel Heads For Stage As Musical
... Saddam Hussein is no stranger to artworks ... the real 
language, it is Saddam's own.
For example, there is no professional novelist, even a primitive 
one ... 
www.middleeastwire.com/iraq/arts/stories/20010905_meno.shtml - 
19k - Cached - Similar pages

so bin laden come over here and let me put these nuts on your 
chin.  and let me grab that fro for more leverage.and then fuck 
everyone of your fucking wives till there fucking so torn you 
wont be abl to fucking us your fist.AND YOUR MOM BITCH!!!!!!!

bin was last seen licking the asshole of his son, bin jur. he 
has taught his son to suck a mean cock and give3 rim jobs.  They 
all will be fucking allah at noon and taking it up the ass by 
suddam hussein on a daily basis.  we p[lan to arrest him as soon 
as we can get his dick out of his son's asshole.

Thank you for your posts ..

Noah, I've been away attending to my Sister's wedding.. It is 
the second one in a span of 6 months.. They just keep re-
celebrating it.. I've read your  post.. I'm glad you think so.. 
Like I said before, you know a believer when you see one, and 
you my friend are so.. So peace to you, 24/7..

Peace..

Hi bro.. long time no see.. Guess everyone here now know who u 
r .. Sorry u had to go through a ton of .... at first..

I've been outa touch for a while.. I dont see Evil-Eye nor 
Allatti2ud.. nor Spy.. Where are they..?

Peace..

Hoping for a spot on saturday night live Saddam & Has Been Laden 
are trying to get their books published. Not able to be found 
for comment Has Been Laden may not get his wish. Saddam's 
book "How to bend over and pack sand" is soon to be released by 
the Paki-sand book company. Has Been Laden was last seen sucking 
sand in a cave. 

Cum to USA and fuck with us, mother fucker.  We gonna fuck you 
up dog.  You getting fucked up the ass and lots of fudge in your 
butt hole.  FUCK ALLAH!  He was last seen sucking bin's asshole 
and licking the shit out of his butt.  FUCK ALLAH! FUCK 
RAMIDEN,  SHould be ram it down.  ram it down your butt hole to 
the hershey's hideaway.  The stink of your shit will only match 
the stink in your mouth from all the shit you talk.  Bin laden 
must fucken die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey COCKSUCKER (Bin laden)
What is your god damm problem i swear they are going to fin you.
if i saw you i would kill you write on the spot. i swear you will
never live a safe life ever again!!!! YOU SUCK YOU MOTHER FUCKIN 
BASTARD, ASSHOLE , SHITBAG COCKSUCKER LOSER.

Where does bin ladie get his balls licked when his son is 
finished licking them?  bin ladie is a pedophile and fucks his 
own son.  Allah likes to fuck him in the mouth and cum on his 
face and spread his cunt cheeks apart and plunge his mini pole 
into his silver dollar sized asshole. bin ladie shaves his legs, 
his cunt hair is breaded and goes down the sides of his legs.  
He got green pus on the tip of his little dick.  Cum sucken son 
of a bitch with his son's dick hanging out of his mouth.  kill 
all these little cockscukers peices of shit, cum guzzlers.  GOD 
BLESS AMERICA AND ITS SUPPORTERS.  bin laden cant get laid by a 
real person and will fuck his own son.  he fucks his daughter 
too when she got blood clots from her peri0od and he ass stinks 
like a mother fucker. douchebag, cock sucker, son of a bitch, 
where the FUCK ARE YOU NOW?  we want to see you get fucked in 
the ass.  you smelly mother fucker, you smell like year old lamb 
piss.  Hey mother fucker from th4 congoo land, bin laden was 
walking through the jungle with his tiny cock in his hand, he 
looked up in the tree and what did he see,  a little mother 
fucker tried to shit on he,  he picked up a rock and hit him in 
his cock and the little mother fucker did a belly wop.  bind 
ladies got shit balls that cling to his pussy hair.  he is a 
cunt and his mother is the biggest fucken whore that needs to be 
shot to death for spreading her hole open to deliver this cunt.  
cocksucker bitch, you fucken whore, you should have your face 
sliced up real good into ribbons and gang raped by huddam 
suddeien.  fucken bitch, cunt whore, slut.  kill bin ladie and 
his cunts.   His mother's discharge ran down her leg after she 
was raped by a million solderies.  fucken cunt.

**************
*    A       *                      
*   CLUE     *
**************

**********
*    A   *
*  CLUE  *
*        *
**********

Ahhh!....now THAT'S better!

still a bit lopsided tho'

Hi!I haven't seen anything from you for awhile!Most of the 
regulars who posted here have gone back to their regular,everyday 
lives,and even the television stations here are starting to talk 
less and less about bin Laden,many are disgusted with the fact 
that he hasn't been found yet.But I wonder if the U.S.really 
wants to find him,since if they let him live they will be able to 
blame any"bad"thing that happens in the world on him,and they'll 
be able to use his name for years to strike fear into 
people.Whenever I spill or break something around my house,I 
blame it on bin Laden now.My girlfriend doesn't find it as 
amusing as I do.
 As you can see,most of the posts lately are from ignorant people 
who think we are having a war against the Muslim people,and after 
reading these posts its easy to see that it would be useless to 
try to talk any kind of reason to them,they're simply too 
ignorant to understand much of anything.When you ask them why 
they think this way,they don't even know.
 I haven't seen a post from allatti2d for weeks,Eagle-Eye comes 
by once in a while,and Spy said he won't be posting anything for 
awhile,but he didn't say why.

                          Peace.

Just letting you know I'm still around, I check the board out 
every now and again. Things are a little quieter on the news 
front as of late, of course just when I say that.....but I'm 
sure EagleEye might just make an appearance for (Ding 
Ding...Seconds Out!...Round 2....Iraq!). Until then help hold 
the fort! 

What's the current mood in the U.S. at the moment as you see 
it?, is there still widespread concern about Anthrax for 
instance?

During the first few weeks of the Anthrax scare,it got pretty 
wild,since no one knew if this was going to be carried out on a 
national scale.I don't think bin Laden had anything to do with 
it,since it was such a small scale operation.And most of America 
is getting a little bored with it.More people will die on 
Christmas day driving their cars than the number that have died 
from Anthrax so far.I don't mean it to sound heartless to the 
ones who have died,I'm just stating facts.
 Many are getting tired of hearing about bin Laden's capture,and 
are beginning to believe it's not going to happen at all,and are 
starting to wonder about the government's lies,and the twisting 
of the truth.I believe the American dead count is much higher 
than what we are being told,so that the public will still be on 
Bushs'side,so to speak.
 Iraq is going to be a much tougher battle,not because they're 
better equipped,or have better ground troops,but because Hussein 
knows all about world opinion.Stories have spread about him 
putting weapons bunkers under hospitals,and other places where,if 
they were destroyed,would made us look evil to the rest of the 
world.We made a big mistake when we left there without finishing 
the job during the Gulf War.
 Good to see that you're still here,so many of the regulars have 
left.And I hope that this board is around for awhile longer,since 
 we will I'm sure soon be hearing the bell for round 2 
shortly.Round 2?Are you thinking about Boxing Day?

Caught a news bulletin, which stated that a ocean-going cargo 
vessel carrying 26,000 tonnes of unrefined sugar, was tipped off 
as being a suspect vessel by a, quote "reliable source" which 
had a viable possibility of containing within it nuclear, or 
biological contaminants, ie; Anthrax (further speculating that 
IF present was to detinated/used within the immediate area as 
the main city airport and business district are a 'stones throw' 
away). The tip-off may proove to be false, as a detailed search 
of the vessel is as of now, continuing. It could be that arms 
and ammunition may instead be on board. The ship set off from 
some island in the Indian Ocean, went via Djibouti next-door to 
Somalia (an Al-Qaeda-rich environment) and set off bound for 
London. As I looked at the news bulletin, a picture of a sugar 
refinery struck me as being a strangely familiar sight. It 
should have been...that ship was due to dock at the riverside 
sugar refinery right opposite MY apartment. (It's been 
intercepted by the Navy and the S.B.S. (sea going equivalent of 
the S.A.S.). So where I said, "things are a little quiet on the 
news front as of late"..please disregard. As far as the mood is 
in the U.S. I THINK I can probably guess.... 

Just finished watching Bravo Two Zero, about a small group
os SAS dropped into northern Iraq on a mission to cut 
underground cables to Bahgdad used to guide Scud missles
being shot into Tel Aviv during the Gulf War.
 I had read the book several years ago, and as I remember
the book, by Andy McNabb, the movie follows the book pretty
close. Their mission was turned into a goatfuck when they
wouldnt kill a young boy with a goat who discovered them.
 I also rented Pearl Harbour to watch. BA HUMBUG this year
for me I guess!

Happy christmas to all in american's, god bless you all, and for 
new year lets get this scum bag and the rest of the jerks like 
sadam out of our world once and for all, we now have a chance to 
do this so lets not fuck it up, get the job done and blow them 
all up including the ira scum bags that killed thousands of 
incocent people for a cause they beleived in, NO ONE ELSE.
All terrorists should now be killed while we have the chance 
before another sept 11 happens, because if we dont they sure will

Happy christmas to all in american's, god bless you all, and for 
new year lets get this scum bag and the rest of the jerks like 
sadam out of our world once and for all, we now have a chance to 
do this so lets not fuck it up, get the job done and blow them 
all up including the ira scum bags that killed thousands of 
incocent people for a cause they beleived in, NO ONE ELSE.
All terrorists should now be killed while we have the chance 
before another sept 11 happens, because if we dont they sure will

Walter: Missed your last reply, we both must have posted at 
almost exactly the same time. I have to admit I wasn't paying 
too much attention to the news, until I saw that bulletin. Talk 
about famous last words! I couldn't believe it, after having 
just posted saying that there was no problem...at least I'd 
previously added, "of course just when I say that". Little did I 
know. The story must have been running for a few hours, and I'd 
been too busy before I finally became aware of it. (Mental note: 
must avoid use of quiet, quieter, quietest and any other variant 
of that word in future).

About Bin Laden, reports said a few days ago he could have 
slipped into Pakistan with a small group of his closest 
aids/bodyguards, despite all Pres.Musharraf's efforts at keeping 
him out. By now he could be anywhere but it can only be a matter 
of time. Eventually he'll surely make a mistake in trying to 
elude his pursuers. Patience isn't actually one of the virtues, 
but maybe it should be in his case. The wider war must go on. 
He'll turn up....dead or alive.

With those U.K. troops directly involved in combat in 
Afghanistan consisting almost exclusively of S.A.S. members, the 
British government is normally very secretive as to any 
casualties regarding this unit. No doubt some may have died 
already without our knowledge in the U.K. such is the nature of 
this unit's operations, (rumours about British casualties a few 
weeks ago not withstanding). I'm sure however that their 
families were informed immediately.

About Boxing Day, traditionally the entire nation puts on their 
one size fits all boxing gloves and all then proceed to beat the 
hell out of each other for the entire day,....until the same 
time next year. Great therapy, relieves a lot of repressed 
anger:-). I'd used the boxing reference quite unaware of our 
upcoming national holiday, you beat me to the punch on that one.
 

LADEN S LAMENT    
(tune:  Bye-Bye Blackbird)

Blackbird, blackbird bringing the dues all day
Right outside my door.
Blackbird, blackbird why do you make me pay
I see sunshine no more.
All thru the country you hang around
Now I begin to feel caveward bound,
Blackbird, blackbird gotta be on my way
Where there s bombing no more.

CHORUS

Pack up all my gear and so,
Here I go
Laying low,
Bye-bye Blackbird.
Someone lies in wait for me,
Daisy s beat
Feel defeat,
Bye-bye Blackbird.
No one here can save
Or understand me,
Oh, what hard-luck stories
They all hand me.
Got no bed
And no more light
Dark in the cave tonight,
Black bird.
Bye-bye.


Blue bird, blue bird chasing me far away
I ve been running from you.
Bluebird, blue bird, why do I hear you say,
 Skies are red, white & blue. ?
I m like a power that s fading here,
Where ev ry hour is one in fear.
Blue bird, blue bird this ain t my lucky day,
Thought my dreams would come true.

CHORUS

Pack up all my gear and so,
Here I go
Laying low,
Bye-bye Blackbird.
Someone lies in wait for me,
Daisy s beat
Feel defeat,
Bye-bye Blackbird.
No one here can save
Or understand me,
Oh, what hard-luck stories
They all hand me.
Got no bed
And no more light
Dark in the cave tonight,
Black bird.
Bye-bye.



 2001 Everyman
original lyrics:  Mort Dixon/    Melody: R. Henderson 

(that was supposed to be "fear defeat")
if you want the music w/ it, visit www.afghansas.com

(and if you'd like a momento of the 'O'Taliban' song my new 
store is at www.cafepress.com/hartsongs

(not feeling too commercial in that, as proceeds will go to 
charity)

That news item I saw earlier certainly got my attention. Food 
for thought indeed. I'll try to enjoy my Christmas holiday 
nevertheless. 

Regarding Britain's S.A.S., you may be interested to know a 
little known fact about them. They never existed. At least not 
initially. They were a figment of the imagination of Britain's 
wartime government during WWII to fool the Nazi's. Unscrambled 
radio signals were broadcast announcing the operations of a 
specialist unit trained in sabotage to operate behind enemy 
lines. It spooked the Nazi regime into thinking they were real 
and had the effect of adding confusion and panic amongst their 
ranks. I don't know when it was formed exactly, possibly not 
long afterwards. Andy McNabb aside, one or two others along with 
a few misfits who claimed to be in the S.A.S. but in actuality 
failed to make the grade have tried to profit from their 
knowledge of being in the unit through books and newspaper 
articals. The S.A.S., former operatives and those in charge of 
it have viewed this current trend with some dismay and anger.
I myself read the accounts of one such person, who'd fought 
alongside the then anti-Soviet forces in Afghanistan, which 
comprised of a mix of Afghans and Islamist Extremists. I posted 
my concerns on this board as a result of reading that article, 
about how coalition forces might fare in Afghanistan. He had 
said how tough in his opinion (and also I pressume from his 
first-hand accounts) he thought the coalition's enemy was in 
Afghanistan. It did worry me. Hence my outburst at the time. 
Thankfully, things have panned out as well as they could have 
done in the circumstances over there. Do you by any chance know 
anything about the U.S.'s Delta Force and the unit formerly 
known as Seal Team 6? Just their general history? Don't worry if 
you don't, it's just a casual enquiry! 

In case you were wondering about humanitarian aid in Afghanistan 
and the sources which generate that aid, I used a private 
investigator....not Magnum.P.I.,...Mr.Google...and told him the 
words -- food aid, afghanistan, (UN,US,christian,muslim), he did 
the rest. Very good rates..and he didn't charge for expenses!:-)

Hope you find what your looking for.

http://deltaforcecommand.org.uk/sfct.php

http://www.angelfire.com/wa/cagiva2/delta.html

http://www.angelfire.com/wa/cagiva2/deltadesert.html

I know a guy who was awarded a silver star for saving some of 
his fellows over there--was with Delta special forces; from what 
I hear, the people they were fighting against would hide behind 
pregnant women...he was asked for an interview for the book, but 
didn't want to talk about it at the time...

Thanks for your input, and hey!... I'll have to check that new 
song. But do you sign autographs?!

Sorry--it was for 'Black Hawkk Down'

Mr. Google--and he didn't charge a cent!

Gladly, if it ever gets to that point...

Dear everyone,
             I think what happened in September will live with 
me forever. I think that Bin Laden SUCKS. I am muslim but I am 
against tererism. Also people should relise this is NOT a muslim 
war but war against terrerism. People should stop sending hate 
mails because it is not our fault there are bad people in the 
war. I am not laming anyone. 
IN SEPTEMBER THE WORLD CHANGED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are many good internet sites for the Navy Seals and
other Special Forces outfits from the U.S. and countrys around
the world.
 I believe it was Everyman who originally recommended Goggle
way back when........... Thanks! I use it all the time now.
Its like ten times as fast as through MSN and gets what Im
after.
 I really dont know much about Delta Force but the origins of
the Seal Teams also dates back to WW2. There was a great need
for mapping and clearing beach areas of mines and such, mostly
on the Pacific side of the war. So special units were formed
(strong swimming skills required) to do this. These were the
original Frogmen. At some point they picked up the handle UDT
(Underwater Demolition Team).
 The Seal Teams came about in the early 1960's with U.S. 
involvement in Vietnam and the Seal Teams idea was strongly
supported and pushed ahead by President Kennedy.
 I never served in any branch of the military, although I did
join the Air Force once when 20 and out of work. I joined on
delayed enlistment, found a good job soon after and had a hell
of a time getting out of it. I really sweated that summer!
 Special Forces guys here dont take to kindly to imposters
either from what I've read. Its been a while but one of the
Seal websites was listing real names of imposters being
reported to them.
 About 8 years ago I had an extreme interest in reading
everything I could written by documented Navy Seals. Most
of it dated back to Vietnam, and I wonder If there exists
some sort of time limit on when they can make public any
parts of military operations they were part of?
 Richard Marchenko, ex Seal, has written many books and claims
to have started Seal Team 6. But then he always came across to
me in his books as a bullshiter and I see now he is writing
pure fictional books on covert operations, so how much of his
"true story" books were also fictional?
 In the first installment of the Survivor television show there
was a interesting character named Rudy Boesch, who was a former
Navy Seal. He was much more than that. He was one of the early
commanders of Seal Team 2 (east coast) during Vietnam and is
legendary for his hard work, seeing that his men had only the
best weapons and equipment.
 I dont know jack about Delta Force, except Chuck (Texas Ranger)
Norris had nothing to do with it! Now you got my brain begging
for more info on that unit!
 Merry Christmas to you and all in the U.K.!!

 

Alright.  I think a few of you may have missed something 
here.  
1) Bin Ladin doesn't check this site to see what any of you 
think of him
2) If he did he still wouldn't give a shit.
    So, in light of that, do you still feel the urge to try to 
personally verbally abuse him, and if so, do you realize what a 
pointless, bigoted, waste of energy it is?

On Sept. 11 the world turned to the east. Nothing is different 
except how we all look at it. The cowardly acts were just one 
too many. Taking advantage of human good nature is has NO 
bravery to it. The fact that human technology has produced 
vulnerability is no new thing. From the Stone Age castles to 
now, terrorists are exactly the same.
  The difference is communication. The reason 9-11 is so close 
to so many is the result of the very Internet you are reading 
right now, as well as other advances in technology. 
  Here for the first time in history, WE THE PEOPLE CONDEMN THE 
ACT OF TERROR. Never before have the people of the earth been 
able to act above and beyond any government. CNN or any other 
government news agency can no longer control public opinion. 
  Be it vile or a whisper, we now can bridge the spans of 
oceans, culture and countries. The collective of society can now 
for the first time in history, tell the governments of the 
world....STOP!
  Sick mindless cowards with self-serving agendas can no longer 
carnage the earth and the people of the earth and hide. Not in 
governments, not in caves. There is no place to hide the acts of 
war, terror or even hate.
  The world listened on 9-11-01. That is what is different! We 
all love our children. Now with this new ability to communicate, 
perhaps we can turn from war and raise our children to be the 
first generation of the thousand-year peace.
   The 20-year war is over, slowly each evil will meet justice. 
This site and others are the forum of world opinion. A priceless 
gift of technology. The cry of anger is a very real result of 
thousands of years of pain. It too shall become history.
              We all hold the universal truth, hope and peace in 
the very depth of our hearts, religious dogma is dead. A new era 
has begun, the Age of Aquarius has finally brought the cowards 
of the world to justice. May the writers prove, the pen is truly 
mightier than the sword.
             With best wishes to all and may the many faces of 
God shine the true message of peace from within to all 
religions, may the child of peace find his way, his work is done.
                Merlyn /|\

Everyman: Thanks again for the references, I checked them out. 
There seems to be a very close laison between our military 
forces in that department...interesting. About Black Hawk Down, 
I think that in that regard discretion was certainly the better 
part of valour, as far as making contributions to any books on 
request were concerned. Goodness knows he must have seen enough, 
some of it quite harrowing I'd imagine.

On a lighter note...Laden's Lament...a sure-fire hit sir!, I'm 
humming the tune even as I type this in...but soon it could 
be "Everyman can we have a word sir?...(in 
reply)..sorry...sorry!...(flashing camera bulbs)..I said!....NO 
time for Interviews!!, meeting with record execs, you know 
Geffen, Branson...I have to prioritise!"


Open Mind/Closed Fist: As you've seen I've been fed a little 
info' on the SF topic. What I said still holds true, the S.A.S. 
were indeed a 'phantom' outfit in the begining until their 
formal creation not long after. I've nothing against Andy 
McNabb, I've not read his books, though I do know that having 
successfully established himself as an author his books are now 
by all acounts entirely fictional. His early books did I'm sure 
give an interesting insight into the world he operated in, those 
being the ones already mentioned. 

Thanks for the interesting information on Navy SEALs, much 
obliged. Chuck Norris?..yep!..I had my suspicions too:-)


A Merry Christmas to you both, though I'll most probably say it 
again soon...unfortuntely I have a habit of repeating myself.

 

Are you directing that question at everybody on this board? If 
so, put your name down and address your questions to me, and 
I'll consider replying.

=============

12/22/2001 : "Defector says Saddam has death squad" 

An Iraqi defector says Saddam Hussein has a squad of 30 
terrorists scattered around the world ready to strike at any 
time.
The secret squad specialises in sabotage, urban warfare 
and hijacking.
Vanity Fair magazine says it is the cream of a secret 
1,200-strong commando force called al Qarea, or the 
Strikers.
The unit was commissioned by Saddam's son Uday and 
presented to his father as "a birthday present".
The 30 men have been given new identities and United Arab 
Emirates passports, after a minister in the Gulf state was 
bribed by Iraqi spies.
According to the defector Abu Zeinab al-Quarairy, a former 
brigadier-general in Saddam's feared Mukhabarat 
intelligence service, the death squad has a link to the 
September 11 terror attacks.
He told the magazine: "When I saw the World Trade Centre 
attack on television, I turned to a friend and said 'that's 
ours'."
The 41-year-old defector, who fled Iraq in August, said the 
30 soldiers could be anywhere in the world, waiting for a 
secret message from Baghdad to spring into action.
A senior CIA analyst told the magazine that as far as the 
agency is concerned, al-Quarairy is speaking the truth.
The unit of killers was formed in 2000, but its roots go back 
far into Saddam's murky history as dictator of Iraq when he 
established an elite commando brigade.
Abu Zeinab al-Quarairy said: "It's got a long-established 
history and we're proud to be associated with it, because it's 
trained the elite - the people who carried out operations 
abroad, who are on the Interpol wanted lists.
"By the time a trainee leaves our school, he can protect any 
VIP or assassinate any VIP. In 1979, when Saddam 
Hussein executed half his cabinet, they had the honour of 
executing them at the camp."

Ananova Ltd 

==========================

12/22/2001 : "Poll: Most Americans Back Broader War on 
Terrorism" 

A majority of Americans support expanding President 
Bush's declared war on terrorism beyond Islamic militant 
Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda forces to a military 
campaign against Iraq, according to an ABC 
News/Washington Post poll.
Sixty-one percent say the war will not be a success unless 
the United States goes on to oust Saddam Hussein and 72 
percent support U.S. military action to achieve that aim, 
according to the poll published Friday.
Three-quarters of the respondents also said they supported 
striking suspected terrorists bases in Yemen, Somalia and 
Sudan, the poll found.
Ten leading members of Congress recently sent a letter to 
Bush urging him to make Iraq the next target in the U.S. war 
on terrorism, saying Baghdad had revived its weapons 
program in the three years since U.N. inspectors left.
The U.S.-led campaign in Afghanistan was sparked by the 
Sept. 11 attacks on America that killed about 3,000 people. 
Bin Laden is Washington's prime suspect in the attacks.
Some members of the international coalition helping in the 
hunt for bin Laden have shown reluctance to expand the 
military action beyond Afghanistan to countries such as Iraq.
On the search for bin Laden, 64 percent in the ABC 
News/Washington Post poll said the United States must 
capture or kill him for the U.S. war on terrorism to be a 
success.
The national poll of 755 adults was conducted by telephone 
Dec. 18-19 and had a margin of error of 3.5 percentage 
points. 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) 

===========================

http://www.mnd.go.kr/mnden/emainindex.html

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/index.html

Ladies and Gentlemen Elvis and Bin have now left the building.

1) He may not check out this board but I bet he's getting news 
from some scource. By his own addmission, he's more of a radio 
listener.
2) He may give a shit if he hears about the cave deoderizer/air 
removers being prepared right now, if he's still cavebound. 
Flushing out, where have I heard that before.........
3) I feel more of a need to physically abuse bin Lucky rather 
than verbally. For some this board provides a place to vent 
their frustrations, anger and fears. This as a good thing. Once 
again I wiil say I am proud as an American how the country has
handled all of this in reguards to Muslims living in America. The
overall backlash was much less than I expected. Maybe boards such
as this actually saved lives? Cant kill anyone with a keyboard.

A wish of good fortune to the newly inaugurated leader, Mr Hamid 
Karzai in the quest of you, your King, and your people, to 
rebuild your country and to one day bring it back into the 
international community as a peaceful and law-abiding nation. 
Those of good will in your country much deserve lasting peace 
and stability.

I think you really are agreeing  with me:   John Walker should 
be treated as though he were not an American!  But do you really 
agree with "Get a Grip" that we should kill thousands of  
Taliban soldiers by pulling their bodies apart with horses?

In any other conflict, nobody would care about a man like 
Walker, who had joined the opposing army long before any 
attack.  During the Gulf War, US troops pulled the "guy in 
Burmuda shorts from Chicago" out of an Iraqi trench, and  
Americans  welcomed him home.   But at that time, George Bush 
Senior had told us  not  to hate the Iraqi people--he said we 
were only  fighting against Saddam Hussein.  In this war, George 
Bush Junior tells us to hate the Taliban because of their 
religion,  calling it "hijacked Islam".  So,  of course,  some 
people they should massacre Taliban, not matter who they are.

Proud of how america handled this, eh?  Yes, of course, 
americans, the people who have throughout history brought fear 
and death into the lives of so many others in other country with 
no conscience whatsoever, who have sat on their morally superior 
pedastal and not only turned a blind eye toward the horrors in 
the world, but worked to exploit or facilitate them?  Are you 
proud of how maturely america has handled this?  I sure was 
proud of my people here in america when I first saw the little 
pictures of Bin Ladin having sex with a donkey.  I sure was 
proud when I heard the words "raghead" and "sand nigger" 
hundreds of times during the first two weeks after to the 
attacks.  And yes, I'm sure fucking proud of how my people have 
blindly hated every muslim and person of middle eastern descent 
becasue they don't know enough to see that this has been coming 
for a long time.
    And as for the fabulous newsflash that Hussein has 
terrorists all over the world, well no shit so do we.  Hell, 
some of his terrorists are probably us.  Our military has caused 
more than enough grief in the world.  The way I see it, every 
other country is much more forgiving than our's.  After all the 
carpet bombings and genocide that the US has had either a direct 
or indirect role in, in the past, people from other countries 
still feel for the people that were affected today, but take a 
look at america.  Nothing, and then four planes later there's 
nothing but "kill the sand niggers" and "let's just nuke them 
and make the world's biggest glass parking lot.  Nothing's ever 
been done to us on our own turf, and I suspect that's why people 
are so outraged.  Call it a loss of innocence.  We can no longer 
be naive enough to believe we're invulnerable, call me what you 
want, but I say this was bound to happen, and I feel that we're 
all the better now that it has.

America is bad...bad...bad, because you saw a picture of Osama
rear ending a donkey? What, you havent been to any sites where
you can blow his fucking head off, a little later I'll hook you
up with a list or you can check out Afghansas.com and click on
the links near the top.
 You see the glass half empty, I prefer half full. I see all the
good America does, liitle things like freeing and feeding the
Afghan people while wiping out the the donkey molesters. Being
the only superpower left leaves the U.S. totally exposed, and
the biggest target of all the tree hugging hippie bitchers and
moaners of the world.
 The internet is what it is, everything, good and bad, can be 
found. I base my pride on real Americans, family, freinds, 
people I work with. Real people.
 As far as being morally superior, where the hell does that come 
from? If America thought it was morally superior this country
would be run like the Taliban ran Afghanistan. Hell you can even 
look at pictures of Osama pleasuring a donkey. Obviously you
are enjoying your rights as an American citizen. We've had 
Presidents and other elected officials who couldnt even begin
to claim to be superior in anything, let alone morally.
 One country, no matter how big or influential, can never solve
all the problems of the world. You've heard the saying "it takes
a whole village to raise a child"? Now picture that on a global
scale and we may be onto something.

Date: 2001-12-21

Peace Pact Between Indonesian Christians and Muslims in 
Sulawesi

VATICAN CITY, DEC. 21, 2001  Christian and Muslim 
leaders in Indonesia signed a peace pact Thursday 
pledging to end three years of hostilities in the island of 
Sulawesi. 
After two days of talks, mediated by People s Welfare 
Minister Jusuf Kalla, the parties signed a 10-point statement 
in Malino. 

Among other things, they promised to cease all conflict and 
disputes, and to reject interference from foreigners and 
outsiders, including militia of the Laskar Jihad. Recent 
clashes in the region have produced more than 50,000 
refugees. 
The conflicting sides also agreed to set up two joint 
commissions: one to deal with questions of law and order, 
the other with social and economic conditions. 
This is the fifth time the sides reach an agreement. The 
respective leaders say the previous pacts were 
unsuccessful because the field commanders of militias 
were not present. 
The Christian delegates included two Catholic priests, 
Father Jimmy Tumbelaka and Father Herman Umbas of the 
Manado Diocese. Taking part as observers were Bishop 
Joseph Suwatan of Manado and Archbishop John Liku Ada 
of Makasser, delegates of the Indonesian Catholic Bishops  
Conference. 
Meanwhile, violence continued this week in the nearby 
Moluccas. On Sunday, nine Christian passengers on a boat 
were shot dead. Christians in Ambon have protested to the 
local authorities and called on the central Indonesian 
government to intervene.

Source:ZENIT.org
==================

Those who attack the opinions of others, without having the 
courtesy to put down a name or 'handle', in my opinion, don't 
possess the courage of their convictions. Let's see if the 
poster has that courage. 

Speaking as a non-American Om/cf...well said sir. 

The poster...wow, do I get a tabloid name now?  Can I be 
Jack the Ripper?  Oh damn, already taken, the Boston Strangler?  
Oh, that one too...well I guess I'll just have to be the poster 
then.  How about you capitalize it, you know, just to make it 
official.

Once again I have to say that i disagree with you.... Like I 
said in my earlier post,I think John walker should be punished 
to the max whatever that might be depending on what he is 
charged with. As for George W. Bush telling US that we should 
hate the Taliban because of their religion...I have never heard 
him speak such words, In fact I believe that he has said many 
times that this is not a war on religion but on terrorism...
Anyhow, like I said before, You have a right to your own 
opinion. 

Artificial Synchronicity, Language Manipulation,
Kundalini and the Corners of Reality



SUGGESTION : Avoid reading the following texts prior to watching 
the movies below :



1) THE MATRIX (with Keanu Reeves);
2) THE TRUMAN SHOW (with Jim Carrey).
(You may also consider buying these videos and keeping them at 
home for future reference).


* Because the text you are about to read may be too strong for 
your brain, in case you didn't watch yet any of these movies, I 
suggest you stop here and go watch the movies. You may bookmark 
this page and return later, or save the texts to your files and 
read them afterwards (there are dozens of pages of texts).
* If you're going ahead, go slow and chew well every section and 
sub-section before jumping into the next. FEEL YOUR SPEED.
* There is also a General Index at the beginning of Section 3, 
that you may want to use as a reference.




-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------


1) INTRODUCTION


As of March, 2000, THEY represent about 95 to 98 percent of the 
total Earth population. YOU KNOW IT. YOU FEEL IT.


THEY have been growing in numbers since a "spiritual hurricane" 
swept up this planet from 1993 to the present day. YOU are a 
SURVIVOR of this situation. YOU KNOW IT. YOU REMEMBER IT.


THEY live in two different realities at the same time : THE 
STAGE and THE BACKSTAGE. You live in one. YOU KNOW IT.


THEY read your mind all the time, and manipulate language and 
synchronicity to keep what you call "your life" under their 
control. YOU KNOW IT.


THEY try to bend your belief system through falacies, false 
dichotomies and false premises, in order to sell you distorted 
ideas about their SECOND reality, which is presently only a 
reality-to-be to you. YOU KNOW IT.


THEY sell a dreamworld that doesn't exist, which is quite 
different from their REAL second reality (the so-called 
BACKSTAGE), and force you to deliriously fantasize about it. YOU 
KNOW IT.


THEY create DELIRIOUS RULES and sell you free access to their 
BACKSTAGE if you follow these sick rules. YOU KNOW IT.


THEY try to describe your day-to-day reality in a distorted way, 
using their sick beliefs to convince you. YOU KNOW IT.


THEY try to turn what you do in your ordinary "life" - for good 
or for bad - against you. YOU KNOW IT.


THEY manipulate every aspect of your "life", from your innermost 
fears, to the future your heart truly wishes to live, to the 
tiny details of your day-to-day routine (for instance, the 
decision you will take to have your coffee with sugar, sweeter 
or none of them). YOU KNOW IT.


THEY try to turn your thoughts against you. YOU KNOW IT.


THEY may even manipulate facts and change realities in 
the "society" you may think you live, in case you try to 
change, "improve" or "fix" things in your STAGE-WORLD reality. 
YOU KNOW IT.


THEY give you the sensation that you are being JUDGED by them. 
YOU KNOW IT. 


THEY manipulate your nightly dreams, through symbols, 
archetypes, toons or comics, controlling and hypnotizing your 
behavior in these dreams. YOU KNOW IT. 


THEY create false news, performing like actors in your world, 
just to keep you "tuned" in their PRISON, or ZOO, or CIRCUS, or 
MAZE, or whatever name you give it. YOU KNOW IT.


THEY use key words or symbols in the very sentences you hear and 
situations you watch all the time, so as to keep you under their 
control and manipulate your mind. YOU KNOW IT.


Words apparently innocent like : FIRE, MOTHER, POOL, HAIR, DOG, 
RAIN, TICKET, DEATH, DISABLED PERSON, ALLIGATOR, CAR, WHITE, 
HELICOPTER, ALCOHOL, PRINCE, BIRTHDAY, ANGEL, HOME, HORSE, 
PHONE, SHOES, MEAT, LOOKING-GLASS, LEFT AND RIGHT, TEACHER, 
PHYSICIAN, DENTIST, JAPANESE, KEYS, BANANA, PREGNANT, MILITARY 
RANKS, WINDOW, JEW, WAVE, BABY, LOTTERY, FOREIGNER, NAKED, 
ASSIGNMENT, ICE-CREAM, CUBAN, CONTEST, SMOKE, GLASSES, 
INJECTION, PLAYER, WATERFALL, and so many others. Words that 
shoot. YOU KNOW IT. YOU KNOW THEM VERY WELL.


THEY have turned you into a mesmerized puppet, and your mind 
into a slavery condition. YOU KNOW IT.


But if you open up your mouth and try to unmask them, THEY will 
DENY everything and call you a CRAZY person. If you insist, THEY 
may even get you literally under arrest or take you to a 
madhouse. YOU KNOW IT.



THEY ARE CHARACTERS. YOU ARE NOT.

THEY LIVE. DO YOU ?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

2) THE FORMATION OF THE PRISON


In the beginning, you enjoyed it. You were caught in the middle 
of the WAR between THEM and THE OTHER SIDE, and you were trying 
to help THEM win the war.


Through mind reading, synchronicity, language and the 
association of ideas, THEY have created a SECOND MEANING for the 
very words you hear, repeating thoroughly the key words and 
intentionally avoiding the synonyms, the other words, and 
phrases without this second meaning.


You probably started to hear a voice (or voices) in your heart, 
and fell in love for somebody very special. This was good.


But now, that the "hurricane" is over, you're still a PRISONER 
of THEIR language, and can't find your way out of this MAZE. 
Like Alice, you are still in the rabbit-hole of THEIR 
Wonderland, which they try to sell to you as YOUR reality-to-be.


Wonderland, Ixtlan, the Promised Land, Xanadu, Magonia, Shangri-
La, Paradise, Shell Beach, Santa Claus and the Christmas Day, 
and so on. Many names, the same disease for your mind.


What a crap, don't you think ?


However, it is NOT impossible to get out. Do you wanna try ?



Remember John Lennon : 

"Imagine there is no heaven, I wonder if you try,
No hell below us, above us only sky."

"Paranoia strikes deep.  Into your heart it will creep."

That was a very informative post with all the US, THEY, THEM, 
OURS & THEIRS. But I must be I and point out the lyric from
Imagine YOU use should read:
  
Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,

Find this Ozzy song on LP record, play it forward 10 times then
backward 100 times and YOU will understand all. Thats the real
reason THEY only allow Cd's now, not sound quality or convienance
like THEY say, THEY dont want US to listen to music backwards!
And if this works for YOU let ME know so I can make some serious
CASH for MYSELF.


Crazy Train

Crazy, but that's how it goes 
Millions of people living as foes 
Maybe it's not too late 
To learn how to love 
And forget how to hate 
Mental wounds not healing 
Life's a bitter shame 
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train 

I've listened to preachers 
I've listened to fools 
I've watched all the dropouts 
Who make their own rules 
One person conditioned to rule and control 
The media sells it and you live the role 

Mental wounds still screaming 
Driving me insane 
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train 

I know that things are going wrong for me 
You gotta listen to my words 
Yeah-h! 

Heirs of a cold war 
That's what we've become 
Inheriting troubles I'm mentally numb 
Crazy, I just cannot bear 
I'm living with something that just isn't fair 

Mental wounds not healing 
Who and what's to blame 
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train 

Well, now above all that's just insulting.  I must've 
listened to Crazy train over 200 times in my life.  Hell, I can 
play it and know the words by heart, and I don't appreciate it 
being exploited by anyone, let alone some jackass trying to make 
a point.
    Couldn't you have picked a backstreet boys song for your 
little game?

afghanistan is a small nation of terrorists. they are all dumb 
fuckers so why dont we nuke the middle east and then we wouldn't 
have the problems that we have. 

Now THERE'S a solution!  Does that mean you'll be in the middle 
east when the bomb goes off?

Well, now above all that's just insulting.  I must've 
                listened to Crazy train over 200 times in my 
life.  Hell, I can 
                 play it and know the words by heart, and I don't 
appreciate it 
                being exploited by anyone,

 Go home and cry to your mother if you don't like it.Get a name 
for yourself to post as.Like gutless.
 Om/cf---- good lyrics quote for these crazy times!

Choosing a name,....I could see your dilema, which name to 
choose? Jack the Ripper?..already taken...the Boston 
Strangler?..been done already! Yes..it had to be 
distinctive, ...and yet...have no hint of plagiarism about it,.. 
tricky!. Then..came a moment of clarity...a moment of 
genious,...The Poster!..yes that's it, with a capital 'P',..a 
VERY nice touch if I may say so. A name that would FOREVER, be 
enshrined in the annuls of internet communication history! 
Congratulations!

If I can assume that most of the unamed comments are 
attributable to you, before and since that post, it just gives 
the impression that you are not willing to stick by your 
comments, to take responsibility for them if people choose to 
criticise, disagree or maybe...,and yes, I know it's a long 
shot,...maybe even agree with them. If your not interested in 
dialogue or to have your comments taken seriously, then by all 
means don't put a name down, no problem. I do not necessarily 
agree with everybody else's opinion, but nevertheless people 
should be free to express them, something you don't want people 
to do it seems. For intance VOTE BNP, whom I obviously do not 
agree with, at least takes responsiblity for what he 
writes...even though he may use his head as a doorstop. 

You embarrass us with your ignorance.  Islam has nothing more to 
do with this war than Tim McVeigh did with Christianity.  It is a 
terrorist hiding behind ignorance and religion.  I applaud the 
people of Afghanistan for their active participation in the 
destruction of the forces of evil hiding behind Islam, the 
Taliban and El Qaida.  I hope the provisional Gov't is successful 
in uniting the country under the banners of God and freedom.

I hope the USA leaves a similar legacy in all the other countries 
of the world which currently support terrorism.  

Hey--'tis good to see you're still on the board.
Been away for a while. Scaning through, I see many 
regulars have either hung back reading or left. Oh well.

About your mystery poster boy---I noticed some reference 
about J.Lennon and movies and other poopy stuff that 
reminds me of someone else. Guess they all use the same 
"playbook".

I did a liitle quick research on the British National Party.
Even their official website comes across similar in ideology to 
our Klu Klux Klan only they actually have people run for office.
Very purist and isolationist.
 How much clout do they actually have there? BNP seems big on 
blaming any problems on immigrants and especially non-white
immigrants to England. Are they a skinhead type of group?
 BNP seems to use tactics that are very old. Such as, weilding
crime statistics like a sword. The old, "I remember when you 
could leave your doors unlocked untill....." The official web 
site was much watered down and innocent compared to a few I
saw related to the BNP.
 Its snowing here in northern Illinois, the first this winter,
which is late but just in time for Christmas. Little things can
really boost the spirit!
 It was a dangerous situation on the 767 from Paris yesterday
but I could not help laughing when I think about that idiot 
trying to light his shoes, flight attendants and passengers
recognizing the threat and reacting. Hell, even the passangers
who couldnt get a piece of the guy offered their leather belts
to tie him up! Another spirit booster!

You're not getting our planes anymore.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/23/plane.investigation/index.html

My heart is heavy with remembrances of working at the WOrld 
Trade Center, Christmas Eve about nine years ago.  Worked for 
Oppenheimer and remembering the office workers dressed up as 
little elves and me dressing up in the World Trade Center 
bathrooms as Minnie Mouse and going and teasing a co worker that 
thought I was someone else.  I love everyone that has ever 
worked in that building and especially the people that died.  It 
rained intestines, eyeballs, and body parts on September 11th.  
Please keep all of these people in your thoughts and the ones 
that gave up their lives in the Pentagon, Pennsylvania, etc.  
All Christmas cards that have been sent to me are face down on 
the dresser where they belong.   

Well, the same playbook eh?  Now that is something I never 
expected to hear from any of you.  Yes, any, and I realize 
that's a broad generalization, but hell, not like there aren't 
already too many of those going around on this board.  You know, 
like "Americans suck," and "Canadians suck," and ooh, can't 
forget "kill all the sandniggers"
   Anyway, getting back to the point, haha, after I've watched 
most(can't really say all) of you say the same thing to me as 
well as anyone else who didn't agree with you, how can you 
complain that all of us on, shall we say, my side use similar 
approaches?
   Oh, and in any case, call me cruel, but to make a better 
impression in you're writing, Justice USA, you might want to 
exclude amusing little mental pictures like "It rained 
intestines, eyeballs, and body parts on September 11th."

Its hard to agree or disagree with someone who says nothing or
maybe does. It makes it all the more easy to say "that wasnt me" 
or "I didnt do it" when its to your advantage. Most posting here
say exactly what they think, and if a someone disagrees, they
provide reasons for their point or take their lumps and quit, or
the most interesting of all, learn from other points of view and
continue on.
 You are bringing nothing but antagonism and a soap opera 
atmosphere. Bitching and moaning about who said what about
whom.
 Here, I'll get the ball rolling. Americas biggest terrorist 
threat is from Canada. A country with almost no armed forces, 
huge amounts of unguarded border, and the largest issue on the
political table is whether or not its cool to shoot a moose who
wanders into a town. I'll give Quebec credit though for trying
to separate themselves from the rest of the hosers, eh.

In the past, anger, presant, pain, future, gone. 
May your path take you, as your words speak for you, My time is 
waisted here. Best of luck,
         Merlyn/|\

I hate to see you go...Sorry to hear that you felt that your 
time was being  wasted but I  for one your words wern't..Best of 
luck to You also...take care

Please excuse my misprint above...My fingers don't always work 
as planned. I meant to say I for one  feel your words were never 
a waste of time....

Hey--don't rip on outta here. 
People are still reading. 
I'm not into the "magick" thing so much----but I read.

This board is just going through one of its many phases.

Just like I said.  The next person or persons that tried to 
hijack or cause commotion on an airplane would get their ass 
kicked.  We learned our lesson from Sept 11th.  I loved how CNN 
showed a close up of his face to reveal the cuts and bruises on 
him.  I hope they lock that fuck away for quite some time.
Spy, good to hear from you again.  I thought you had left the 
board.  Has anyone heard from Eagle-Eye?  Merry Christmas to all.

I CAN NOT FIGURE ALL OF YOU OUT.  YOU ARE THE MOST AROGANT 
STUFFY PEOPLE I HAVE EVER SEEN ON A SIGHT. YOU ARE SO SMART  
SOLVING THE PROBLEMS OF THE WORLD. AND YOU KNOW WHAT!! YOU NO 
NOTHING.   GET A LIFE GUYS AND  TRY NOT BEING SO SMART.  WHAT 
KIND OF PEOPLE ARE YOU GUYS   I WOULD REASLLY LIKE TO KONW?    
SURE  LETS FACE IT  WALKER IS A TRATER AND MUST BE HANGED.  HE 
BETRAYED HIS COUNTRY  AND IF I WERE A JURER I WOULD HAVE HIM 
HANGED.  HE IS NO FUCKING GOOD    HIS FATHER AS WELL MUST BE 
HANGED  HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR WALKER GOING THERE AS A YOUNG 
MAN.  OK   I HAVE HAD ENOUGH TO SAY    

I guess  you haven't read any of us on this board! We all have 
different opinins on what needs to be done with Walker...Please 
don't lump us all togeher. We all have our  own opinion...

It's good to see you post again, keeping well I hope. Yeah, a 
few have moved on formaly, Missin' and Holland/Italy being two, 
but a few of us are still here. The board changes in it's 
nature, but the board as you've probably realised for some 
people has served it's purpose over these past weeks and months. 
Speaking for myself I'm happy simply to give and gain instant 
reaction on request to events in our respective countries, 
regardless of how the board changes.

A thought came to mind about something you did a while back. If 
you can remember it was about a system in which specific numbers 
were equated to specific letters of the alphabet, from memory my 
name came out at 692. I'd have to re-check though, and I 
remember thinking to myself.."yep...that figures!" What pray 
tell, did your name come out at?

I'm glad theE.S.D's back, at least in posting just now and 
again, it's good stuff, and I always read through it. To you 
Spy, please just post as and when you wish, I again always look 
forward to hearing from you. All the best.    

Sorry in the delay in getting back to you..been catching up. 
About the BNP, well from what little I know about them, they 
target areas of the country with problems that have a racial 
dimension to them taking advantage of any divisions that exist. 
There are skinheads amongst their ranks, but to what extent, I 
know not. There were race riots in Britian in the summer in a 
number of our northern towns and cities. Not living in that part 
of the country it's difficult to say which communities are more 
to blame than the other. It would be at least fair to say that 
no one community is blameless. The degrees of blame for such 
events I guess is a matter of opinion. It was clear more people 
voted for them in certain inner city areas, though nowhere near 
enough to get anyone directly elected to Parliament. You 
probably don't know who the leader of the Conservative Party is, 
because we don't either, and he's been in that post for 3 months 
now. His party's been accused of moving more and more to the 
right politically, since being out of office. Senior figures of 
the BNP had links to the Tory party, which embarrased the Tory 
leader because they mistakenly thought he was 'their' man in the 
Conservative party. It is said he was unaware these 'links' 
existed and very promply had these 'links' removed from his 
Party. It was a highly embarrasing episode for him, which he did 
deal with swiftly, although the dury is still out on what his 
true character is. To my knowledge, that's as far as the far 
right have been able to get. The usual lines and half truths are 
spun out, along with the nice suits and friendly smiles to 
project a wholesome image, and not a hood in sight.

That flight you mentioned...what an idiot...ever of heard 
anything so stupid, trying to ignite the contents of your shoes! 
An alternative would have been to drop to a lower altitude, open 
a door..and send the Rocketeer on his way with a cigarette 
lighter...a good opportunity for him to finally find whether his 
novel self-propulsion system works. Om/cf, as far as I can see 
it, the days of hijacking are numbered because ordinary 
passengers knowing now that the rules have changed, have 
absolutely nothing to loose, and simply won't allow this to 
happen to them. Every able bodied adult has now become their own 
security guard. These terrorists should know even if their are 
10-20 of them on board, there are 100-400 other passangers 
waiting to wring their necks. They may take out a few of us, but 
know that we'll keep coming until at them until they have, and I 
quote, "the ever holy shit beaten out of them".

It snowed here yesterday for about 40 minutes, that was extent 
of our white Christmas, so good on you...you're looking set for 
a picture postcard view, come Christmas morning. Mind you, we 
don't have ice storms over here,...so I can't complain too 
much.     

I am sorry if today 12/24 the GREAT PIECE OF NEWS isn't arrived 
yet...
Let's see in the next times...

Anyway, I wish a MERRY X-MAS to all righteous people on this 
board.

Feliz Navidad

To any Spanish and/or Mexicans reading, a Merry Christmas to you 
too:-)

Understood. If the need is there I will do what must be done. 
For now, my work is done.
         Merry Christmas,
I will leave you all with this thought;
'Twas the night before Christmas,
He lived all alone
In a one-bedroom house
Made of plaster and stone.

I had come down the chimney
With presents to give,
And to see just who 
In this home did live.

I looked all about,
A strange sight I did see,
No tinsel, no presents,
Not even a tree.

No stocking by the mantel,
Just boots filled with sand,
On the wall hung pictures
Of far away lands.

With medals and badges,
Awards of all kinds,
A sober thought
Came through my mind.

For this house was different,
It was dark and dreary.
I found the home of a soldier,
Once I could see clearly.

The soldier lay sleeping,
Silent, alone,
Curled up on the floor
In this one bedroom floor

The face was so gentle,
The room in such disorder,
Not how I pictured
A United States soldier.

Was this the hero
Of whom I'd just read,
Curled up on a poncho,
The floor for a bed?

I realized the families
That I saw this night,
Owed their lives to these soldiers
Who were willing to fight!

Soon round the world
The children would play,
And growups would celebrate
A bright Christmas DAy.

They all enjoyed freedom
Each month of the year,
Because of the soldiers
Like the one laying here.

I couldn't help wonder
How many lay alone,
On a cold Christmas Eve?
In a land far from home.

The very thought
Brought tears to my eyes,
I dropped to my knees 
And started to cry.

The soldier awakened
And I heard a rough voice,
"Santa, don't cry,
This is MY CHOICE!

I fight for freedom
I don't ask for more,
My life is my God,
My country, my Corps"!

The soldier rolled over
And drifted to sleep,
I couldn't control it,
I countinued to weep.

I kept watch for hours,
So silent and still,
And we both shivered
From the cold night's chill.

I didn't want to leave
On that cold, dark night,
The guardian of honor
So willing to fight!

Then the soldier rolled over, and ,
With a voice soft and pure,
Whispered, "Carry on, Santa,
It's a Christmas Day, all is secure"!

I looked at my watch,
And I knew he was right,
"Merry Christmas, my friend
And to all a good night"!

-Written by a Marine stationed in Okinawa, Japan

To Justice:  Having memories like that of WTC must really suck 
this time of year.  I can remember I used to commute from NJ to 
NY to high school and passed through WTC every day.  Don't wanna 
date myself, but it wasn't even finished back then. The towers 
were done.  But the concourse had no floor and no stores yet.  
It was all scaffolding and you had to walk on boards. On the way 
to the PATH train you could hear the clomp-clomp-clomp of all 
those people walking on those boards. Now it's all gone.  
Unbelievable. I just passed through and I felt a connection with 
the place.  I can only imagine how you must feel having worked 
there.

HEY!! U.K. CITIZEN!!!!  Just wanted to know..... OK, you're a UK 
citizen, but are you a UK resident, too ?  You don't live here 
(USA) do you ?

We had our hopes raised last weekend about getting UBL, didn't 
we ?  It's disappointing.

I haven't been a big contributor to this site (just a couple 
of "I'm-a-pissed-off-American-so fuck you" kinda things) but I 
check it out alot.

Just wanna say Merry Christmas to everybody.

DTOM

Well, if there was ever any doubt, the latest terrorist was very 
obviously a DRUG ADDICT. No doubt in any mind should be left. 
These sick maggots are nothing more than strung out Drug 
addicts. Twisted by heroine and coke, their minds are paranoid 
and that is all they want to be, paranoid. They think that they 
can make the world succumb to their sick paranoia. 
  America should never fear such low life scum! I am proud of 
the people who jumped him and I pray he is brought to justice 
for all the world to see! Each person on that plane that jumped 
the terrorist was touched by an angel from the 9-11 disaster and 
given the stregnth in their hearts to do what needed to be done. 
The dark cloud has run it's course, my prediction has come true. 
My work in the realm of the spirits gave path for just this end. 
They have failed! They suck at what they do and America is awake 
and ready to stop every one of their sick self serving drug 
infested wastes of life. (no cursing :o)
        This is truly a Christmas presant from our fellow man!

              Merlyn /|\

When asked why, this flight attendent apprehended suicide bomber 
crazed terrorists replied: "you'll see."

He is saying, this is only the beginning.  Actions of this 
nature will not end until we impose security as impenatrable as 
El Al.  Upon this days arrival, expect strikes elsewhere and 
everywhere as has been lived the world over for decades.

The finest and best security cannot protect against the mind 
seeking to bypass.  Always there shall be a loophole to 
penetrate.  The only true prevention is the total elimination of 
the threat.

President George Bush says 2002 will be a war year.  It will be, 
but an unconventional cloak and dagger war.  Expect continued 
mass executions worldwide via silenced bullets. If you are a 
suspected terrorists or supporter, 2002 is your year to meet 
your maker.

John
E...

You are a motherfucker,nigger....anton too.
gay boy tolik

The 'handle' not withstanding, if anybody didn't know otherwise, 
one might guess they'd assume I was U.S. residing, though I'm 
actually not. I actually believe that the attack that took place 
in September in tune with the N.A.T.O alliance, was indeed an 
attack on all. It's possible that an attack of that nature could 
have happened to ANY country in my view, and that's the point 
from which I approach this subject. In point of fact, my family 
home is on the English south coast, and I have an apartment ('a 
flat' - english equivalent) on the riverbank in London, so I'm 
based quite firmly in the U.K.. Like many Brits I have family in 
the U.S., one or two I believe did have connections with the 
U.S.A.F., so I have some vested interests in your country! Hope 
that answers that.

As for Bin Laden, I'm sure you as an American citizen feel that 
sense of disapointment, quite understandably, that much more 
palpably than those residing in allied nations. Although I can 
sympathise, it's difficult for me to put myself in your shoes as 
it were, although as you may be aware my nation has endured 
terrorism for over 30 years, though naturally not on the scale 
of the attrocities that took place over 3 months ago. Bin Laden 
won't hide forever, there are simply too many determined people 
looking for him now, and with a 25 milliion dollar price on his 
head it may be fitting fate that the arch betrayer, is himself 
betrayed. 

DTOM, I also read your posts, and you should feel free to 
contribute in whatever manner you see fit whether frequently or 
infrequently, it's your board as much as anybody else's.

Thanks for the Season's Greetings, and may I extend the same to 
you DTOM!...hope to hear more from you.    

Merlyn: I too read your posts, so don't think people don't! I'm 
glad others voiced their comments prior to mine, to make you 
think otherwise. I agree with the general premise of your posts, 
you realise what needs to be done, yet you never loose sight of 
the ultimate goal which is for a peaceful and sane world at the 
end of it. Prepare for the worst, but still...hope for the best.
I'll be watching out for that post on the 30th.

Merry Christmas to you.

I started a post 5 hours ago, was almost done and suddenly
disconnected either locally or MSN. Just became all connected
again. Had to change some things to connect. Very strange.
 Rocketeer! LOL! Maybe a new airborne anti-submarine torpedo out
for its first test. Maybe Taliban John can join the testing 
program and redeem himself. Nah.
 We are being told this nutcase acted alone, although it is 
strange a warning was issued weeks ago about actors smuggling 
explosives and bomb components on airliners. If this man is from
Sri Lanka it is noteable that their local terrorist group, Tamil 
Tigers (sounds like a minor league baseball team) is really 
pissed about getting put on all the terrorist group lists and
getting out of country fianancing cut off.
 Something really bothers me about the Terrorism Warnings being
issued in the U.S. The public never really recieves concrete 
info on what to look for. If they are based on some intercepted
communications or a heads up from another country it would be 
nice to know. The police in the U.S. long ago realized the public
was the best tool they had to fight crime, with Crimestopper and 
Neighborhood Watch programs. But nationally these warnings are 
issued with little explanation other than the standard rhetoric. 
If the terrorists know that we know, this is a good thing. It 
takes them years to put together a operation like that of 
09/11/01. They do not want to fail. Sure they are crazy, but 
failure would set them way back. For Christmas I want the 
Goverments around the world to trust their citizens and provide 
the details neccessary to let the people protect themselves. 
Look at what individual citizens, who are aware, are doing on 
airliners! Dont continue to issue vague warnings about this and 
that. The warnings have dropped recently in the U.S. Maybe 
somebody in the Whitehouse rememebered the story The Boy Who 
Cried Wolf?
 

The board name would be 360. [ Going in circles :-) maybe ]
My one friend was showing me those number/letter 
relationships or whatever they're called. I believe they heard 
it from some ministry. I'll have to look at it again. Never did 
add up my real name. ( Might be scary ).

I hope you have a good holiday sir and tell some of your 
friends some American dude wishes 'em a Merry 
Christmas.
----------------------------------------------
Seeing how its Christmas Eve----I'll repost this post for 
anyone who has'nt read this: 

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO LIKE DR. SEUSS, YOU MIGHT 
LIKE THIS
 (Author unknown) 

This is the story of "The Binch" 

Every U down in Uville liked the U.S. a lot, 
But the Binch, who lived Far East of Uville, did not. 
The Binch hated the U.S! The whole U.S. way! 
Now don't ask me why, for nobody can say, 
It could be his turban was screwed on too tight. 
Or the sun from the desert had beaten too bright 
But,  I think that the most likely reason of all 
May have been that his heart was ten sizes too small. 

But, whatever the reason, his heart or his turban, 
He sat facing Uville, the part that was urban. 
"They're doing their business," he snarled from his perch. 
"They're raising their families! They're going to church! 
They're leading the world, and their empire is thriving, 
I MUST keep the S's and U's from surviving!" 

Tomorrow, he knew, all the U's and the S's, 
Would put on their pants and their shirts and their dresses, 
They'd go to their offices, playgrounds and schools, 
And abide by their U and S values and rules, 

And then they'd do something he liked least of all, 
Every U  down in U-ville, the tall and the small, 
Would stand all united, each U and  each S, 
And they'd sing Uville's anthem, "God bless us! God bless!" 
All around their Twin Towers of Uville, they'd stand, 
and their voices would drown every sound in the land. 

"I must stop that singing," Binch said with a smirk, 
and he had an idea--an idea that might work! 
The Binch stole some U airplanes in U morning hours, 
and crashed them right into the Uville Twin Towers. 
"They'll wake to disaster!" he snickered, so sour, 
"And how can they sing when they can't find a tower?" 

The Binch cocked his ear as they woke from their sleeping, 
All set to enjoy their U-wailing and weeping, 
Instead he heard something that started quite low, 
And it built quite slowly, but it started to grow-- 
Then the Binch heard the most unpredictable thing... 
And he couldn't believe it--they started to sing! 

He stared down at U-Ville, not trusting his eyes, 
what he saw was a shocking, disgusting surprise! 
Every U down in U-Ville, the tall and the small, 
was singing! Without any towers at all! 
He HADN'T stopped U-Ville from singing! It sung! 
For down deep in the hearts of the old and the young, 
Those Twin Towers were standing, called Hope and called 
Pride, 
and you can't smash the towers we hold deep inside. 

So we circle the sites where our heroes did fall, 
with a hand in each hand of the tall and the small, 
and we mourn for our losses while knowing we'll cope, 
For we still have inside that U-Pride and U-Hope. 

For America means a bit more than tall towers.
It means more than wealth or political powers, 
It's more than our enemies ever could guess, 
So may God bless America! Bless us!  God bless! 





      

MerryChristmas from theE.S.D. to Open Mind/Closed 
Fist,Radio Europe,
Justice,Everyman,Noah,JusticeUSA,snake~~eyes,Walter,Ita
lianGuy,John,U.K.Citizen,
Merlyn,EagleEye,Spy,Holland/Italy,Missin',allatti2d,
DON'T TREAD ON ME,North Carolina Gal, and all our allies.    

=========================

12/24/2001 : "Next Up: Saddam" 

Top Iraqi military and government officials attend festivities 
marking the rule of Saddam Hussein
After September 11, Washington sees Iraq s weapons 
capabilities as a direct and intolerable threat to American 
national security. So what will be done?
Saddam Hussein lives for vengeance. But in 2002 the Iraqi 
dictator, who haunted the  90s, could well get a taste of 
someone else s wrath. And for President George W. Bush, it 
will be personal. 
IN 1993, AFTER THE GULF WAR and after the first 
President Bush retired as commander in chief, Saddam 
tried to murder him with a car bomb in Kuwait, but the 
Clinton administration didn t want to hear about it. The new 
president s staff encouraged diplomats in the region to play 
down the aborted attack, especially the incriminating 
evidence that pointed directly to Baghdad. The reasons: the 
White House didn t want to have to react; it didn t have a 
policy for eliminating Saddam; it wasn t even sure how best 
to contain him. Eventually, reluctantly, Bill Clinton fired off a 
few cruise missiles and relied on exile groups, covert 
conspiracies and overt sanctions to defang the vengeful 
dictator. That policy fell apart in 1998, and four days of 
intense bombing called Operation Desert Fox couldn t put it 
back together again. So now George the Son is president. 
But even as he wraps up his  war on terror  in Afghanistan 
and looks at other fronts, his aides tell the press that Bush 
hasn t decided what to do about Iraq.

AN  IF  OR A  WHEN ?
That s only half true. In principle, Bush and his 
national-security team have decided that Saddam has to go, 
U.S. officials say.  The question is not if the United States is 
going to hit Iraq; the question is when,  says a senior 
American envoy in the Middle East. Bush intends to 
eliminate Iraq s ability to build, use and share with terrorists 
a devastating arsenal of mass destruction. In the aftermath 
of September 11, Washington sees this clearly as a direct 
threat to its national security that cannot be tolerated and 
should be eliminated, say U.S. diplomats in the Middle East. 
Faced with such resolve, vital regional allies Turkey, Jordan, 
Kuwait and Saudi Arabia all of which border Iraq are 
quietly saying they re ready to cooperate. They may help 
convince European allies that the moment has come to take 
on Saddam.  If there is a war against terror, then Iraq is part 
of the terror,  Kuwaiti Information Minister Ahmad al-Fahad 
al-Sabah told NEWSWEEK. An adviser to Saudi Crown 
Prince Abdullah says that discussions about targeting 
Saddam have already begun:  Suppose we agree with you 
Americans? How do you plan to do it? That is the dialogue 
right now.  

How indeed? Despite the tough talk, the administration has 
barely begun to grapple with the challenge of taking out 
Saddam. NEWSWEEK has learned that the Joint Chiefs of 
Staff, under heavy political pressure to produce options for 
military action against Iraq, have been looking at a study that 
suggests putting 50,000 U.S. troops on its southern border; 
another 50,000 U.S. troops on its northern border; then 
sending the two forces toward Baghdad in the middle. But 
planners doubt that even that force would be enough to take 
Baghdad. The current commander of U.S. ground forces in 
the region, Lt. Gen. Paul Mikolashek, suggested a few days 
before 9-11 that to take Baghdad and overthrow the regime 
would require forces  at least at the level  of Desert 
Storm when around 169,000 U.S. combat troops were 
deployed (along with twice that number of support troops). 
There s deep skepticism among the senior military that 
Bush, shown these sorts of numbers, will still seek to 
embark on such a huge expedition. At the other end of the 
scale, members of the exiled Iraqi opposition claim that a 
sustained demonstration of American resolve, including a 
willingness to deploy troops, will lead to popular rebellions 
inside Iraq and mass desertions within Saddam s army, 
and will result sooner rather than later in his overthrow 
 without actually requiring the use of such large American 
forces. It was Clinton s obviously halfhearted approach, they 
say, that undermined earlier efforts along these lines. 

CONFUSED ALLIES
To sway the debate, a pitched bureaucratic battle is being 
waged over the operational details.  The people who are 
opposed the way they are trying to screw it up is by taking 
control of how to do it,  says Ahmed Chalabi, an Iraqi 
opposition leader who is rapidly becoming one of the most 
controversial figures in Washington. His enemies say his 
Iraqi National Congress has more of a presence in the 
District of Columbia than in Iraq, but among his 
inside-the-Beltway supporters he counts Defense Secretary 
Donald Rumsfeld and Pentagon deputy Paul Wolfowitz. 
Arrayed against Chalabi are Director of Central Intelligence 
George Tenet, Secretary of State Colin Powell and his 
deputy Richard Armitage. As these policymakers wrangle 
over methods and timing, they ve created some confusion 
among allies who would like to be helpful.  We get the smell 
that something is cooking in Washington,  says a senior 
Turkish official,  but we don t know exactly what it is.  Turkish 
Prime Minister Bulent Ecevit is due to go to Washington for 
talks in mid-January that he says will help to clarify plans for 
Iraq. But the trend lines are clear.  We have the feeling 
something is going on,  says Kuwait s al-Fahad al-Sabah. 
 And the Iraqis are feeling it even more.  


What none of America s allies want is a return to the 
ineffectual harassment of Saddam and the privations 
imposed on his people that marked noncommittal 
American policy for a decade. He s proved too durable, and 
remains too dangerous, for that.  Saddam comes from a 
tribe that believes in revenge, and he was raised on it,  
warns a Jordanian intelligence officer.  We don t want you to 
botch it up,  says a gulf diplomat in Washington.  You are 
8,000 miles away. You don t suffer the consequences. We 
do. So we urge rational and clearheaded and realistic 
thinking linked with firmness. Show me a plan that will work. 
I ll even pay for it. 
The Russians and America s European allies are openly 
skeptical of media reports that attempt to link Saddam 
directly to the events of September 11. Most of Washington s 
partners in the coalition fighting terrorism have warned 
against opening up a  second front  against Iraq until Al 
Qaeda is finished. They hope the Bush administration will 
concentrate for now on diplomatic efforts to revive  smart  
sanctions and get weapons inspectors back into Iraq under 
U.N. auspices. For the most part, the administration is ready 
to follow that course.  There will be a second phase where 
we look at all the different aspects of international 
terrorism issues to do with weapons of mass destruction,  
British Prime Minister Tony Blair told NEWSWEEK recently. 
 But the method of acting, that s something for later 
deliberation.  


NEW SANCTIONS?
Moscow dropped its objections to new sanctions in 
November, and State Department officials saw that as a 
major breakthrough. Russia has signed tens of billions of 
dollars in trade deals with Baghdad, but Russia s Deputy 
Foreign Minister Aleksandr Saltanov recently confessed to a 
gathering of pro-Iraqi businessmen that it was  increasingly 
difficult for Russia to fight alone  against tightening 
sanctions. In any case, few diplomats expect Iraq to accept 
the Security Council s terms: limited economic sanctions, 
but unlimited access for arms inspectors.  The ball is in 
Saddam s court,  says one European diplomat.  But the 
signs aren t good.  Diplomacy will have run its course, in all 
probability, by early summer.  If Iraq is not positive on the 
sanctions, then of course there will be a reaction,  says 
al-Fahad al-Sabah.
Just what kind of reaction will also depend on what the 
Bush strategists can cook up by then. Six months from now 
the lasting success or not of the present Afghan 
campaign should be apparent. Lessons learned can then 
be applied to Iraq, and not all of them will be military. Iran s 
role, for instance, is critical. Part of the reason the gulf-war 
coalition allowed Saddam to smash uprisings in northern 
and southern Iraq in 1991 was to stop Iran from pouring its 
militias into the country 


As for what may happen on the Iraqi battlefield, U.S. military 
leaders are dismissive of the Afghan examples they ve seen 
so far. Enthusiasts (most of them civilians) proclaim that 
Operation Enduring Freedom has revealed what air power 
and Special Operations forces and a popular uprising can 
achieve. But Saddam s Republican Guard is a disciplined 
mechanized force that s nothing like the ragtag Taliban. 
Rebel Kurdish factions control about a quarter of 
Iraq much more than the Northern Alliance held in 
Afghanistan at the start of the war. However, they frequently 
fight each other, and occasionally forge alliances with 
Saddam himself. In the south, most Shiite groups have 
been smashed, and the strongest are closely tied to 
Tehran.
Yet the Pentagon is building up its administrative resources 
in the region and preparing for the contingencies of war. The 
U.S. Third Army is moving its headquarters to Kuwait, 
something it has done before during exercises, but a potent 
symbol under present circumstances. The Air Force has 
beefed up the operations of its Combined Air Operations 
Center at Prince Sultan air base in Saudi Arabia. That unit 
has been running the Afghanistan air operations, while also 
handling the daily grind of patrolling the no-flight zone over 
southern Iraq. Now the Air Force has split the planning cell 
in two, with one devoted entirely to preparing an air 
campaign over Iraq.
Deterrence is no longer enough to contain Saddam, says 
an influential Republican in Washington, and the national 
mood after September 11 has set the stage for action. The 
notion that a showdown with Iraq can be avoided in the year 
to come is  inconceivable,  he says. As President Bush has 
announced on several occasions, he will pick the time to 
deal with Saddam Hussein. But that time is drawing near.

By Christopher Dickey and John Barry
NEWSWEEK

===============================


...and to all a good night.

NORAD will be tracking Santa and his fighter escort tonight.
First stop is dumping that gigantic lump of coal for all the
terrorists. They think they're getting Uranium. Ho, Ho, Ho.

...tell your children not to be concerned for Santa (he is well 
stealthed and protected by our great forces) as he makes his 
wordwide rounds tonight.  Ho-Ho-Ho, Merry Christmas to all...

John
E...

http://www.noradsanta.org/

You people, every time I check back here, sometimes more 
infrequent than others, I'm amazed at your total willingness to 
give away what little freedom you have left.
   I hear people talk about how security in the U.S. needs to be 
stepped up, how, basically, every human in the world needs to 
have every aspect in their life monitored.  
   Now the way I see it, though I may not really have anything 
to hide, I would rather die than allow my privacy or that of any 
other person be compromised by a governemnt which has already 
gone too far.  
   You think your government will just let go of control when 
the "crisis" is over?  No.  You complain about socialism, often 
confusing it with communism, and at times anarchism, all the 
while preaching it's ideals.  
   Fine, all of you want to be babied, controlled, assured it 
will all be alright, then so be it, but I will fight until death 
to keep what little we have left.  

I would like to wish each and every one of you a very Merry 
Christmas and Best Wishes to All....If I can I would like to ask 
that we not forget our Men and Women over in the middle east 
that are  fighting for us to keep us safe and free....They are 
away from their families this holiday and need our support...God 
Bless Us All

Im not sure where you pick up on a willingness to give up
freedom. Nobodys planting microchips in asses yet that I've 
heard about. At this moment in time I am as free as I was 20
years ago to live as I please within the law. Historically in 
times of national danger certain privileges, not constitutionally
gauranteed rights, are curtailed for the safety and good of 
millions of people, not a personnal attack on a few.
 Are you from New Hampshire? The only reason I ask is I've always
loved their state motto, "Live Free or Die". It beats the hell
out of "The Land of Lincoln".
 I dont complain about socialism, I flat ass hate it. I've done
some research, and Canada, with their liberal socialist goverment
is like a terrorist sponge. Terrorists around the world are 
traveling on Canadian passports because they reside in Canada. I
realize the U.S. and Canada are neighbors and allys but Im 
telling everyone, the U.S. is in danger from Canadas' policys. If
my neighbor has pitbulls in his yard, and my child has been 
recently bitten by a pitbull, although not the neighbors, Im 
still going to check every inch of the fence between my property
and theirs for security.

I agree with the pitbull theory, The way i look at is once 
bitten, twice shy....Have a good one...:)

Merry Christmas to all. I for one will not forget our men & 
women in Afghanistan and around the world. They are blessed for
the help they gave the Afghan people.

Wishing you all the best for the Holidays.
Ashraf,I wish for you happiness during this holiday season.

Santa was sighted dropping coal over a cave entrance. Later Bin 
Laden was found face down in front of the cave with a deer 
antler firmly planted up his but and hoof marks on his head. 
Earlier this week a stoned maggot was found trying to light his 
shoe on fire, making a point to tourch the plane he was in as 
well. Being a martyer of walking death, he made a point of 
showing the world just how much of a brainless fool can be made 
when Bin Laden is involved. Knowing no limits to his sickness he 
then ranted all about how the world needs paranoia and fear. 
Needless to say Santa is working on new ways to "fix" these bad 
and evil doers and deliver a new and improved type of coal. 
These new types of coal will seek the intellegence of the 
individual and firmly plant themselves where the sun doesn't 
shine! 

Now the war in Afgan is almost over. Was it a success. No. Why? 
because the leaders of the Taliban (those who spoke so strongly 
on CNN) including the ambasador to Pakistan, the young 
spokesmans for Omar who claim that they will fight till the end 
and Mr Osama himself, has they been caught.

What actually happen was that this war only help change the 
goverment of Afghan. Will these new goverment do good for the 
people? Hope they will. Will they support the US if US were to 
attack another muslim country supporting terrorism?

Osama might just turn his story around and said that if he did 
not attack US, would the US and it allies help the afghan people?

So in order to succeed, every nation in the world especially the 
muslims countries have to get rid of all those radicals muslim 
who create havoc in their countries. Just look at Indonesia. 
After President Suharto reign how many innocence live has been 
lost to these radicals. Actually they are jobless, very low 
income people who have nothing better to do, so some people give 
them the weapons and they just roam the street, killing 
different people of different race and religion. If Suharto 
would have just kill those protester I guess about 1000 lives 
would have bee killed but many thousand innocence live would 
have been saved and Indonesia would still be a beautiful country.

Let just pray that these people around the world would come to 
their senses and live in harmony with other of different race 
and religion and not killing the minority in their countries. I 
cannot imagine if the christain would do likewise in their 
countries against the minority.

Not long ago and far away, Santa was getting ready for his 
annual trip...but there were problems everywhere. Four of 
his elves got sick, and the trainee elves did not produce the 
toys as fast as the regular ones, so Santa was beginning to 
feel the pressure of being behind schedule. 
Then Mrs. Claus told Santa that her Mom was coming to 
visit. 
This stressed Santa even more, and when he went to 
harness the reindeer, 
he found that three of them were about to give birth, and two 
had jumped 
the fence and were out, heaven knows where to. 
More Stress! 
Then when he began to load the sleigh, one of the boards 
cracked, and the toy bag fell to the ground and scattered the 
toys. 
Totally frustrated, Santa went into the house for a cup of 
coffee and a shot of whisky. 
When he went to the cupboard, he found the elves had hit 
the spirit and there was nothing left to drink. 
In his frustration, he dropped the coffee pot and it broke into 
hundreds of little pieces all over the kitchen floor. 
He went to get the broom and found that mice had eaten the 
straw it was made from. 
Just then the doorbell rang and Santa cursed. 
He opened the door and there was a little angel with a great 
big Christmas tree. 
The angel said: "Where would you like to put this tree, fat 
man?" 
And that, my friend, is how the little angel came to be on top 
of the Christmas tree. 

That made my day....I always wondered how the angel ended on top 
of the tree!

*
* *
 *  MERRY CHRISTMAS & A PEACEFUL NEW YEAR! 
  *
 * *
  *   

Happy Boxing Day!

Alcohol.. alcohol..
My head's about to explode,
My vision's blurred and my eyes are crossed,
My stomach aches like hell...

Alcohol.. alcohol..
My head's about to explode,
I ate so much christmas food
I'll never need to eat again... 

What follows is an extract of an article Salman Rushdie wrote 
for "Max", an Italain magazine. A few sentences are marked with 
capital letters by me.

  "It's arrived the moment to stop making enemies and to start 
making friends.
  Saying this doesn't presuppose any acceptance of whatever you 
want criticism about America, of the gender of those ones 
already produced in different left wing trends and that are one 
of the most unpleasant consequences of the terrorist attacks 
against the U.S. "THE PROBLEM IS THAT..." or "WHAT AMERICANS 
HAVE TO UNDERSTAND...". After the lived events, and around them, 
was created A WHOLE HEAP OF MORAL RELATIVISM OF THE MOST 
HYPOCRITAL ONES, GENERALLY PRECEDED BY SENTENCES LIKE THOSE 
ABOVE.
  On a Country that suffered the most devastating terrorist 
attack of history, on a Country in state of a deep exhaustion 
and touched by the most horrible sorrow, people's blaming, in 
the most ruthless way, the death of its citizens themselves ("Do 
we deserve this, sir?" asked a disconcerted Ground Zero worker a 
British journalist. From my side, looks like completely 
disconcerting to me the decorum of the form "sir").
  Let's clear up why this well-thinking violence is NOTHING BUT 
DETESTABLE GARBAGE. Terrorism means death of innocent people, 
and in this case it was about a massive slaughter. TRYING TO 
JUSTIFY AN ATROCITY OF SUCH IMPACT BY BLAMING THE U.S. 
GOVERNMENT, IS EQUIVALENT TO DENYING THE IDEA ON WHICH EVERY 
KIND OF MORALITY IS BASED: INDIVIDUALS ARE THE UNIQUE PEOPLE 
RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS. Besides, terrorism isn't the 
search of legitimate ambitions by using illegitimate means. 
TERRORISM COVERS ITSELF WITH A CLOAK OF CLAIMS IN ORDER TO 
DISGUISE ITS REAL MOTIVATIONS. Whatever were the aims the 
assassins wanted to reach it seems very unlikely that, among 
these, was included the construction of a better world."

Hope things are going well for you---I know the hollidays can 
be hard on one when their loved ones have to be away 
involved in situations such as your son is in.
God bless them all.  

It is good to know that the "santa joke" made you smile.

Happy New Year.

I haven't talked to you much (if at all) on this board, but I'm 
glad to see you are still posting.

I've never read Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses" and I 
was wondering if you have. If so--I would like you to 
comment or share anything you consider of value from it. 

Anyhow---keep posting---thanks.

Seems the issues are the same, the stakes are higher. Same old 
problems, people and disagreements. No America did not deserve 
such a fate, but it was in the making for a long long time. It 
could have been avoided. There is no way to account for or 
resolve the issues from the past. Only now and here can we 
affect the course of the events. Seeing the suffering of any 
face of humanity is due greevance. But to bring notice to the 
problem took the act of carnage we call 9-11. The Jews have made 
a mess of their foreign policy, and we are neck deep in it. The 
fires in Austrailia and the Mad cow in England, same thing. 
  I for one am sick and tired of self serving politics and 
politicians. We the people must tell our government to act on 
the issues and force our politicians to do what they are told. 
They must be forced to stop selling US out. 
  The US government has gone back to partisan politics and pork 
projects, and the war is still unfinished, Bin Laden, Saddam 
Husein and others have still not been brought to Justice. 
  As soon as the media can be silenced the issues are dropped. 
War is not a campeign. But our government only puts focus on 
issues that make them money. Congress voted themselves another 
raise, stopped any economic bills from getting passed and went 
on vacation. Excuse my english....FUCK THIS!
  Still getting generic replies to my letters, we need more 
people to speak out.  

K.J.V.
=======
John, chapter 15:18-21
"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it 
hated you. If 'ye were of the world, the world would love his 
own: but because ye are not of the world, but I chosen you 
out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember 
the word that I said unto you, 'The servant is not greater than 
his lord.' If they have persecuted me, they will also 
persecute you: if they kept my saying, they will keep yours 
also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's 
sake, because they know not him that sent me.

John, chapter 16:1-4:
These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be 
'offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues; yea, the 
time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he 
doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, 
because they have not known the Father, nor me. But these 
things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may 
remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not 
unto you at the beginning; because I was with you.

========================

new version:
=======
"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it 
hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its 
own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you 
out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember 
the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his 
master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. 
If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these 
things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they 
do not know Him who sent Me. These things I have spoken 
to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put 
you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that 
whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And 
these things they will do to you because they have not 
known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, 
that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you 
of them..."

The new version...Would that be from the New World Translation? 

Actuality we can't remember,because; "I",as the keyboardist 
in this mess,have lost all reasonable contact with my fellow
members for at least 24 hours.

Oh give me a fucking break.  CANADA WILL NEVER, EVER ATTACK 
ANYONE!!!  If canada did stage a military operation, it would be 
the most fucking brilliant manuver in history.  Sure, just lie 
dormant for 300 fucking years and then go attack what, like 
fucking Turkey?
   Whew...on the bright side, congrats Merlyn, you've realized 
the beginning of a great truth.  War isn't about justice, it's 
about politics, and when the issue is out of sight and out of 
mind so to speak, it holds no more significance to the 
politicians, for they can no longer gain support from it.
   Anyway, as much as I may dislike any one of you individually, 
insofar as I know each of you, which is basically nil, I hope 
you all enjoyed the season.  Sure, it may be a false and 
capitalistic holiday, but hey, it's an excuse to get together 
with the people you love.

Man--those goat cum stains really bleach out the pigmet in 
the beard.
Look at them BIG yellow/white cum stain streaks.---- Bunch 
of "Happy KIDS".

BBbbbbbbaaaaaaaaaaadddddddddddddd joke.com

Dogma. For it is unto you to find your own path, not mine. Your 
demise is the shared reality of humanity. Your greatness is of 
the God you meet and revere. Be one with nature as man is one 
with man. 
         Merlyn /|\

Osama got impaled by a reindeer,
coming home from his cave on Christmas eve.
Now you can say there's no shuch thing as Santa,
But now even Osama does beleive..........

Ok then, with the religious portion of the holidays over, on to
the debauchery. Osama looks like death warmed over, he looks like
he put on 20 years in 3 months. He looks like he just lost his
loving horse to a Daisy Cutter and half the horse ended up in 
that shit hanging off his head. He is really pissed now, his
14 year old cousin wants a divorce and he cant find a drug rehab
anywhere to take him because he stinks of death.
 That Richard Reid dumbass, if he had been blessed with more 
bulbous lips, could have been a lookalike. It cracks me up, the
Mosque in England says Reid could not have done this alone, he
is too fucking stupid!
 Those gigantic lips may act as water resevoirs, much as a camels
humps do. Or, they may be a secret code. When chapped, dry and 
cracked the Jihad is on. When not, Osamas been deap throating 
his loving horse again. If he is really dead now, as some 
reports suggest, I hope a monument is erected (no pun intended) 
so Americans can make the annual pilgramage to piss on his 
grave, out of a boat, into The Yellow Sea.

If you are referring to my concern over Canada, do not fret.
My concern is not with Canada attacking another country, although
they sucsessfully kept the U.S. out of Canada in the War of 1812.
As far as attacking Turkey or chickens for that matter, either 
way they'd get their ass kicked.
 My concern is with loose immigration policies allowing 
terrorists to use Canada as a sort of retreat. We have our own
problems obviously, in the U.S., to deal with on the same front.
Canada has elements of damn near every terrorist organization
rooted in their major metropolitan areas and the Goverment knows
it. These Islamic extremist groups have to be destroyed and
removed in all of North America as the very first step to make
the whole continent safer from such terrorist attacks.
 How to do this? Go to the Mosques and ask about extremists. The
people practicing real Islam will be more than happy to reveal
what they know about those using their religion wrongly. Look at
this dipshit Reid from England. The Mosque he and the so called
20th highjacker were associated with was more than willing to
reveal many things, but you know what, no one asked untill now.
Common fucking sense is a long lost art today.

One would hesistate to say that the war in Afghanistan is over, 
with a significant proportion of the male population still in 
possession of firearms. The culture of violence and conflict is 
so engrained in what remains of the social fabric of the 
country, it may take a full generation for that kind of thinking 
to start to undo itself. My country has peace-keeping troops in 
Kabul, with a commitment to send in more to create an 
environment suitable for a fledgeling government to establish 
itself. We didn't have to do that, our troops are being put in 
great danger, but I as an individual believe it's the right 
thing to do for many reasons. Already, a large number of Afghan 
refugees, a large proportion of which are young, are returning 
as they hear that in relative terms at least the situation is 
stabilizing. Afghan nationals were leaving or being forced out 
of their country long before September. The formerly ruling 
regime gave succur to international terrorists held responsible 
for what happened in September. Their training camps and 
headquarters were well known to be based there, chosen because 
of it's isolated location and that country's long-held 
historical reputation as being stubbornly resiliant to outside 
invaders. So, what remains of the Taliban and their supporters 
still want to fight you say,...with respect Factfinder...I don't 
care what they say. The coalition didn't act to pander to the 
likes of them, we acted to eliminate them. If the U.S. had done 
nothing, it would have been a green light to Al-Qaeda and others 
to perpetrate similar acts, without the fear of reprisal. This 
could not...and will not...be allowed to happen. 

Was the war a success? My answer...hell yes!! 

1.In the course of the war, a subjugated population was freed, 
two women members probably for the first time in it's country's 
history have been placed on the new government's ruling council 
to address and redress women's issues in that country.

2.If these people are too busy running and hiding..instead of 
being allowed to plan further attacks in safety and 
comfort...all the better...and I'll vote for a government that 
keeps them running and hiding.

3.From what I have seen and heard of its new leader, Hamid 
Karzai, he seems commited to the task of normalizing his 
country. It's exiled King is to return, a symbol of unity for a 
significant proportion of the population. Unity brings stability 
stability brings peace..and peace brings economic 
rebuilding..economic rebuilding brings prosperity..and thereby 
avoids the roots causes of Afghanistan's problems...religious 
extremism, social inequality and most of all..abject poverty. If 
farmers and others know that there is an economic alternative to 
producing poppy seeds for the heroin trade, because of what it's 
country's economy can instead produce alternatively..and 
legally...you've halved the world's drugs supply in one fell 
swoop. So in answer to your question, I too hope this new 
government delivers, because they know what's at stake...this 
all happening again in 10 years time. They simply cannot afford 
to fail...and the world, the entire world, can't afford NOT to 
help them in some way. That includes muslim and non-muslim 
nations alike. Nations who haven't helped before wherever they 
are in the world, should get up off their backsides and help. 
They know who they are. 

As far as Indonesia is concerned, as you rightly say poverty is 
very often at the root of social conflict in that and other 
countries. Those in power cleverly use religion, political and 
social doctrines and race in such environments to sieze and hang 
on to power. Examples respectively, Indonesia as you've 
mentioned, Cambodia and Zimbabwe. 

I too hope that such people around the world come to their 
senses. Too much human potential goes unrealized. We can only 
hope that the people of good-will in those countries find the 
strength to prevail. Thanks for the questions Factfinder, I'll 
probably reciprocate if I may, when I find the time.

Everyman: Boxing Day hangover...definitely felt punch-
drunk....hic..... Hope you and everybody had a good holiday, 
Mullah Enaud's got a nice site going there, his shop's a good 
idea.

Snake~~Eyes & Allatti2d: Belated seasons greetings! Take 
care.         

Looks to me that Osama has been doing a bit more than usual. 
Might have been impaled by ALL of santa's Reindeer! And mabe 
even Santa! 
   All his opium headed weenies have defected and are now 
starting new poppy fields. Just can't trust a drug addict. As 
long as rich boy Osama was willing to supply free drugs he had 
all the sudo friends he could buy. But in the face of a real 
fight, they got scared streight! 
  The Nike shoe company has a new martyr..er promo man. Talk 
about power in the sole of a shoe! As for Richard Reid it just 
goes to show that Muslim Mosks lead to hard line extreemism. 
Just like any drug they should be illegal in England or at least 
heavily taxed like any rock and roll star. 

a very misleading word.

Merrry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of you..  and thank 
you for your words..

Walter: Hope you enjoy yourself too buddy..

Peace..to All

In Christian religion, the Father, son & the Holy Ghost, All 
Male gender. In Pre-Christian religion Father spirit, Mother 
Nature. The Earth womb and so on.. (Not human nature) Dana, 
Bridged, Morrigan examples of mother spirits of Earth. 
Christianity converted them to the Mother Mary giving birth to 
the Son (sun) (of) God. Previously on the Winter Solstice, Dec 
22 approx. Celebrating the return of the longer days just after 
the shortest day. Given birth from the womb of darkness (earth).
All too often the roots of Christian religion are seated in and 
over lap pre-Christian practice. The King Arthur was renowned 
for uniting the pre and pro Christians to defend England. Given 
the power of Excalibur to unite England against common invaders. 
Huns, Vikings and such. 
  Man has divorced himself from the Earth religions, leading us 
far from the path of ecology. Fear of the unknown has given way 
to science, once magic, and we are seeing a trend back to caring 
for the Earth and an awakening of Shaman based religions like 
the Native American Indians and Druids used to practice. 
  Muslim Dogma and Christian Dogma have led to brutal wars and 
ethnic cleansing, crusades and now terrorists. No book holds 
religion in its pages. No man is more divine than another. We 
face our maker, each of us, on our own. The path of learning is 
for our society to give us, but the path is our own to follow. 
We must learn to teach our children the lessons of nature. 
Nature is a very strict teacher, but never lies. Men pervert the 
truth and lie for power and money. Power and money are but two 
of the many factors in life and far over-rated. 
               With best wishes
                 Merlyn /|\
          The three rays, Past, present & future
                 (We live in the present, all too preoccupied 
with the future.)  

Unfortunately I haven't read the "satanic verses" yet, but 
roughly we all know what he thought about Khomeini's regime.
Yeah, I'm going to keep on posting. :)

Dogma:an established principal,tenet,or doctrine. all 
religions,
be them the old "earth" religions or christianity,islam,etc.
are dogmatic. even atheitism has it dogmatic principals.
there is no way around this for it is but the way of man.

Jesus did not set up a religion.he did not start christianity.
religions are set up by man.we agree that man has always 
used such authority to achieve their own ends and not
that of the God whose name they do it in.
the Knights Templers were a shining example of abuse of
power. it is also interesting from what sources they sought
after for their power.
in your statement of "In Christian religion, the 
Father, son & the Holy Ghost, All 
Male gender".there are those who would argue
you on the Holy Ghost. however, we are not 
on this board for such arguements. 

we also understand some of the old ways.
we understand the "forces of nature" behind
astrology,the taro,and on and on.
truly amazing stuff.
we also realize that those things are very
small tools indeed compared to the overall 
picture of these "forces of nature".
God's "playground" is VERY wide indeed.
there are MANY veils.
all we can say to you is good luck on that
ladder.

having said that;if we offended you by posting
the words of Jesus as from the Bible,we are not sorry.

good day sir

i think this was is going to be a real hard one. i meAn pres 
bush wants a waron terroism and not only on osama. and there are 
a lot of terroist in the world. ithink its goingto take years.

in reply to your original question  Wed Dec 26 17:13:49 2001 
the "new version" was found while I was on the web.I failed 
to make note of that site.
we always compare with the K.J.V.
as you probably noticed the new version cuts short.

we published it as a food for thought.
we only published the "new version" as further food for 
thought or further perspective.
sorry  we could not be of further help.

You are right. This will take a long time and require worldwide
cooperation which is a longshot at best. It will not be all war
and bombing but 90% will have to be accomplished through 
diplomacy. But, it is also a situation where all free countrys
and the good people of the world cannot afford to fail. To live
in fear is unacceptable.
 Pressure is going to have to be brought on Nations that 
seemingly have no connection to terrorism, yet they do. They
may not be predominatly Muslim or militant but contribute to
the terrorist problem facing the free world. At this point in
the current action against terrorism we hear al-Queda, Osama,
Iraq, and the other obvious villians. But what about such 
apparently innocent countrys such as the Netherlands or Belgium.
This war must be fought on more than one front and Im not hearing
about the other fronts at this time. Liberal policys are not 
strictly American.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/24/134111.shtml

International Terrorist Support Groups Thrive in Belgium and 
Netherlands 
Adriana Stuijt
Monday, Sept. 24, 2001 
ROTTERDAM   Top international anti-terrorism experts have 
identified two of Europe's most legally tolerant regions   
namely, the Dutch-language areas around Europe's most important 
west coast harbors, Antwerp and Rotterdam   as the main breeding 
ground for Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups. Osama bin 
Laden 's organization even runs shipping companies as fronts 
from Amsterdam. 
The British researcher Dr. R. Gunaratna warned that, especially 
in The Netherlands, because of its total lack of anti-terrorism 
laws and its very high level of religious, cultural and judicial 
tolerance, Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups are allowed to 
thrive. They use Amsterdam and Rotterdam as central bases in the 
West from which they garnish funds, recruit activists from the 
local Muslim youth cultural groups, and purchase highly 
sophisticated arms in the world's largest trading hub: Rotterdam 
harbor.